Being an Engineer
Being an Engineer
S7E17 Joe Couitt | How to Design for Swiss Machining
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Joe Couitt is the founder of JMC Swiss Solutions, a Phoenix-based consulting firm dedicated to CNC Swiss applications and machining optimization. With more than a decade of hands-on experience in high-precision manufacturing, Joe has built a career grounded in programming, setup, prototyping, and department-level leadership.
Joe began his machining career at Aerospace Contacts LLC, where he developed a strong foundation in precision manufacturing. From there, he advanced into CNC programming and screw machining roles, eventually becoming the head of the Screw Machine Department at Korral Kool. In that role, he led operations for multiple Citizen L20 Swiss machines — writing programs, performing setups, managing tooling and maintenance, scheduling jobs, and working closely with engineering teams to refine part designs and manufacturing strategies.
His time as an Application Engineer at Adams Machinery expanded his perspective beyond a single shop environment. Supporting customers across different industries gave him insight into best practices, machine capabilities, and the common pitfalls shops encounter when adopting Swiss-type technology.
Today, through JMC Swiss Solutions, Joe helps manufacturers unlock the full potential of their Swiss machines — whether that means optimizing cycle times, improving tool life, dialing in processes for tight-tolerance parts, or helping shops bridge the gap between design intent and manufacturability. His journey from machinist to consultant gives him credibility on the shop floor and in the conference room alike — and that combination is rare.
LINKS:
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-couitt-ba189195/
Guest website: https://jmcswisssolutions.com/
Aaron Moncur, host
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well, if you're going to do this, might as well make it a career, make it a job, make it a business, you know. So then we started, we started the company together, doing that, and then it just kind of flourished after that, right? It was, it was a lot of remote programming at first, and doing setups and trainings for people, and then got in with another distributor, being a third party, helping with trainings and service. And then always wanted my own machine, and it was well, as soon as we build enough capital, let's buy one.
Aaron Moncur:Hello and welcome to the being an engineer podcast today, we're joined by Joe Couitt, founder of JMC Swiss solutions, and a CNC Swiss, Swiss Applications Engineer based in Phoenix, Arizona. Joe has built his career from machinist to department head, leading swiss type operations, programming citizen L20s, driving r&d, prototyping and now consulting with shops to optimize their Swiss machining processes. He brings a hands on shop floor perspective combined with real world leadership experience. Joe, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. Thank you for having me. All right, we're going to start with what we've been doing lately here, which is a few rapid fire questions. Just give me the first answer that comes to mind so our audience can get to know you quickly with a few of these. You ready?
Joe Couitt:Sure.
Aaron Moncur:Okay, here we go. If you could witness one engineering moment in history firsthand, what would it?
Joe Couitt:be electricity?
Aaron Moncur:That's a good one. All right. Preferred debugging method, logs, tests or intuition,
Joe Couitt:Tests
Aaron Moncur:Okay? And theory first or hands on, first
Joe Couitt:hands on.
Aaron Moncur:I had a feeling you'd say that, What is one engineering or manufacturing myth you wish would disappear,
Joe Couitt:That one I don't know.
Aaron Moncur:Makes you think a little bit, doesn't it? Yeah,
Joe Couitt:That there's always one way to do something.
Aaron Moncur:Oh, that's a great one. Yeah, yeah, there are almost always multiple ways to skin a cat, right?
Joe Couitt:That's right.
Aaron Moncur:Cool, all right, Joe, well, let's get into this. What made you decide to get into machining and manufacturing in in the beginning? That would be easy. That's my dad Tell us about that. How did that work?
Joe Couitt:Let's see. So my dad has been a Swiss machinist for his entire life. At the point when I was a young teenager, he had his own shop. When I turned 18, he gave me my first manufacturing job, and that's kind of where it all started from there. Worked with him for say, about six years, and then kind of went off on my own after that.
Aaron Moncur:Nice, nice. What was that first manufacturing job? Do you remember it?
Joe Couitt:Oh, yeah, it was mopping floors.
Aaron Moncur:Someone's got to do it right, right? And what was your progression like from mopping floors through eventually operating machines?
Joe Couitt:Yeah. So first it was mopping floors and keeping everything clean. Then it was just changing over the machine for everybody, like collets and guide bushings, bar loading collets. And then it went from there to making tools. And then after that, he would let me set them up and operate them check parts, and it took many years after that before he even let me program on my own.
Aaron Moncur:Do you remember how many years total was from mopping floors to when you were comfortable programming machines on your own?
Joe Couitt:Seven, seven.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, that's that's a while, right? Yeah, there's a lot to learn. So I think most people listening to this know what CNC machining is. They're pretty familiar with like milling work and lathe work, but Swiss machining is less common. Can you explain to us what is Swiss machining, and how is it different from your typical CNC mill lathe work.
Joe Couitt:Okay, so Swiss machine is a sliding headstock, which pushes material through a guide bushing, and your tools are cutting right next to the guide bushing, giving you tight tolerance and ultra support, as opposed to a lathe where you have, like, a six inch stick out, and your tools are moving around your material, your material moves in a Swiss machine, and your tools stay in one locating Z area and just move up and down.
Aaron Moncur:Okay, and what's, what's the benefit to that
Joe Couitt:tighter tolerance? Fat? Faster, more precision.
Aaron Moncur:Parts, what size of parts are typically run on a Swiss machine?
Joe Couitt:Your most typical Swiss machine would be three quarters in diameter or smaller. Okay, for parts, they do make some that are inch and a quarter, but more commonly, three quarter and under.
Aaron Moncur:Are you typically working at, like, the smaller end of that range? Or is it pretty much, you know, everywhere from very, very, very small diameter parts up up to three quarters of an inch? Yeah, I guess
Joe Couitt:it would depend on what field area. You know, medical people might be smaller. Uh, electrical contacts are way smaller. General machining, firearms and stuff like that, lean towards the bigger aspect.
Aaron Moncur:Okay, what I know. So it's a turning operation, right?
Joe Couitt:Basically, yeah, we have a churning, milling, drilling, yeah, pretty much all of them. But yeah, in typical
Aaron Moncur:turning applications. I mean, I'm just thinking of a standard CNC lathe right now, you can get pretty tight tolerances on your diameter right like plus or minus one is not terribly difficult to achieve on a Swiss machine. How much does that change? Are you
Joe Couitt:usually holding the plus or minus, a 10th or so, or smaller
Unknown:10th, yeah, wow, that's
Joe Couitt:super tight, and you can hold that over the course of, you know, six inches straight, if you're turning it all in one shot, you know, really, yeah, because your guide bushing is, your turning tool is right next to the guide bushing the entire time, and the materials
Aaron Moncur:is feeding out. So there's almost zero deflection as you the the force from the tool pushes against the part 100% Yeah, that's very cool. What can you think of some some good examples of parts that are a good fit for Swiss machining, and maybe some parts that would not be a good fit for that application?
Joe Couitt:Good fit would probably be anything needs to hold a tight tolerance, tight concentricity, typically smaller, under six inches in length, would be optimal. As for that's not a good fit stuff that's like terribly over complicated and milling, you know where it's best suited, not in a round form.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, got it Okay, when, when you first started learning about Swiss machining. Was there anything that? Well, first of all, Were you familiar with other manufacturing processes when you first started?
Joe Couitt:Oh, no, no. In in all honesty, when I first started and knew everything about machine shop, it was only Swiss stuff. It wasn't until I was in my 20s, when I started going out and working at different shops, did I even see what mills and lathes and stuff like that was about.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, there's a whole big world out here. Yeah. You know, I started
Joe Couitt:thinking, you're like, yeah, these parts are so huge. And you go over here and people are making 36 inch parts, you're like, Whoa, right.
Aaron Moncur:What was it that made you want to stick in the world of Swiss machining, even before you realized there are bigger, different machines out there, different manufacturing processes. I mean, it was seven years from starting as a deckhand, basically, until you're programming the machines yourself. A lot of people during seven years may have said this, not for me. I'm gonna go do something else. What was it that kept you there and kept you engaged? Just the
Joe Couitt:machines themselves. You know, they're just so fascinating. And it's just, I'm one of those people that I always want to push the limits, right? So I want to see how far I can push this. How fast can I make it, how intricate in detail can we go before, you know, we're outside of the scope even now. I mean, we're doing things that are typically a lathe part, but they can't seem to hold the tir because of the length. And I was like, well, give me a shot. I'll throw it on my machine, and, you know, it's going to be much better. Just that type of intricacies and stuff. That's just, it's made me stick to it, you know,
Aaron Moncur:yeah, are there any success stories that you can think of where maybe a customer came in with a part and they were like, I can't find anyone that can make this part to the tolerance I need. Can you help me out? And you guys were able to knock it out of the park. Well, I have
Joe Couitt:one where I was doing some consulting work for another shop out in Phoenix, where they wanted to make T rails, or I rails, kind of like a big I beam, but they needed counter sunk holes every every inch down 12 feet, and they didn't want to have to extrude it out and then put it on a mill and then keep sliding it outside the doors. So we ended up putting that on a Swiss machine, getting some non conforming i. Uh, rectangular guide bushings and collets and feeding it out. And we did a full 1212, foot part on the Swiss.
Aaron Moncur:Is that an unusual use case for a Swiss machine?
Joe Couitt:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think on average, most people try to stay within they do some long parts. They're typically 18 inches. The most I've seen repetitively is they'll do like a 36 inch shaft, or something like that. But we took 13 foot bar, or 12 and a half foot bar, spun it out, did all the counter sinks, fed it out the back of the machine, and then still had a remnant that dropped and then reloaded another one. That's cool, huh?
Aaron Moncur:You've programmed a lot of citizen l 20s, and if I'm being honest, I don't exactly know what a citizen l 20 is, but I'm assuming it's some type of Swiss machine. Is that accurate?
Joe Couitt:Yeah. So citizens, the brand l 20, just stands for their 2020, millimeter version. So I am more prone to stick with the citizen stuff. It's just one of my favorite brands. There's other Swiss brands, Sagami, star, kornos, that other YouTube people have made popular. Okay, if you ask me, I still feel like citizen would be the Ferrari or Lamborghini of the Swiss.
Aaron Moncur:Gotcha. Okay, how about the price to make Swiss parts? Does it differ substantially from you know, let's say you're going to make a part on on a lathe. Now, obviously you're going to get better tolerances on the Swiss machine. But if you were to compare the cost to make that part on the lathe, and I guess it's just, it's, it's not an apples to apples comparison, is it because if you could meet the tolerance on a lathe, you just do it on a lathe. And the only reason people go to a Swiss machine is because you can't meet the tolerance on a typical lathe, right?
Joe Couitt:Yeah, or typically, it's one of the things where it's like, we have a 12 foot bar loader. It's run most times unattended, once you get it set up and you got all the bugs worked out. Whereas most lathe shops you go to, they may not have a bar loader. So they're hand loading three foot bars into it, or smaller chunks, and they have a person that has to be there the entire time, hand loading a bar, unloading parts.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, now, obviously I know a very limited amount about certainly Swiss lathes and even typical lathes. I've used a lathe many times myself, but I'm no machinist by any means. But it seems like you could get your your your cutter on a typical lathe, even just a manual lathe doesn't need to be a CNC lathe, but you could get your cutter pretty darn close to where, where your your part exits the chuck in the lathe right at that point. Is it? Is it pretty similar to the, like, the core essence of how a Swiss machine works? Or are there other fundamental differences there?
Joe Couitt:Well, I guess the other fundamental differences is that, if you would imagine, like a twin turret lathe, where you have two independent turrets coming coming in that can work front and back at the same time, a Swiss that has that most common you know, every Swiss has a sub spindle and a main spindle and can work independently from each other at the same time.
Aaron Moncur:So are you saying there are two different tools that are performing an operation at the same time, or just two different spindles that are rotating the part, two
Joe Couitt:different spindles. And then there's two sets of gang tooling. So you have back gang tooling, which is usually in your most standard case, it's usually like your drills and your boring bars, and maybe a back turning tool that's held there. But then on the front side, you also have your turning tools, milling tools, boring bars, drills,
Aaron Moncur:so you've lost me a little bit. Does that mean you can do multiple operations at the same time? Yeah? Oh, very cool. I never knew that. That's really neat, huh?
Joe Couitt:Yeah, it's a cool it's a cool aspect because, like when you're programming it, you're always trying to figure how much can I put on the back the sub spindle to do while the front's working. To end quote, use free time, right? Because cycle time is only while the main spindle is turning or one spindle is turning, so whatever you can do at the same time is basically free time.
Aaron Moncur:Got it? That's super cool. Okay, for engineers who might need to design for Swiss machining, are there any pro tips that you can give them that will make your life the operator's life easier, and hopefully their parts a little bit less expensive because they've designed it properly for the process?
Joe Couitt:Yeah, one of them is. Is, I see it a lot, is engineers will take a small part, right? And whether it be fusion or SolidWorks or whatever kind of CAD system they're using, they blow the parts up so big and start putting the smallest little chamfers. And on their screen, it looks huge, right? And it's like, Hey, I appreciate you want me to break that edge, but it's physically impossible to put a 1/10 chamfer here, even though, 1/10 Yeah, you know, like, when on your screen, it's, it's three inches long because you've blown it up so big, yeah, right. You know, just, just like common sense stuff, like, if you don't know if something's gonna work, it takes five minutes to stand up go talk to that guy at the machine and be like, hey, is this machinable? Like, that's the big one. Is people start putting in features behind stuff, and it's like, Hey, man, there's no way I can physically put a tool in there to do this feature. And they're like, Well, why not? I could do it in, like, on my computer. It's like,
Aaron Moncur:okay, so it sounds like some common sense stuff. It would it be a true statement to say that DFM for Swiss machining, designed for manufacturability, for Swiss machining is is more or less follows the same rules as for general lathe work, yeah. Okay, any, any differences or nuances that are specific to Swiss machining?
Joe Couitt:I don't think so. I mean, just about every part you can do on a Swiss you can you can make on a lathe, it will just be more cumbersome, right? Okay, most laid just have one turret, so everything's got to stop and move and come back when on a Swiss machine, everything's like on a gang system, so everything's just sliding over.
Aaron Moncur:Okay, how about just operational workflows at a Swiss machine shop? Is it, you know, pretty typical machine shop, or operationally? Is there anything that engineers should be aware of that might help?
Joe Couitt:Um, no. I mean, it's pretty typical, like a regular machine shop, like a Swiss shops, no different. I mean, the only aspect is I have noticed that sometimes it can take a little bit longer to set up a Swiss machine. I mean, you are, you are in a smaller confine, so it's a lot of twisting and turning and getting everything in there, but in the adverse you know, we'll make, what, 1015, parts before you work out all the bugs, you know, changing tolerances, dimensions, offsets, maybe making a couple changes to your program. But typically the parts running in a minute or two. So, you know, it's six inches of scrap. It's like, oh, it's gone. Versus a lathe, where you're like, oh, man, I just scrapped out a lot more than that.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, I guess your Yeah, your material cost is less, right? But, yeah, right.
Joe Couitt:But as for general flow, I mean, it everything kind of just flows the same as every other machine shop. Usually it's a lot more, longer run jobs. Swiss is known for setting up of the 1000s of parts versus the 10 or 15 parts. Got it?
Aaron Moncur:Okay, okay, this random thought just popped into my mind. How are dowel pins made? I mean, they're really tightly tolerance. Is that a Swiss machine part?
Joe Couitt:Or is that I've made dowel pins, yeah. I mean, it's, you have, huh? Yeah, it's just a face, a radius of turn, yeah, cut off and then a back radius and spin them out and doing it in like 20 seconds.
Aaron Moncur:So Swiss machining a pretty common process for making dowel pins, I believe.
Joe Couitt:So, yeah, I mean, there are some that are that are just casted. And then, you know, ground to finish for certain sizes. But, yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of people making dowel pins or tool blanks. Is another one that people use, like high speed steel tool blanks. A lot of people just be popping those things out, left, right on Swiss machine, just as fast.
Aaron Moncur:Cool, very cool. All right. Well, tell us a little bit about your day to day. Now. Are you spending much time like as an operator, making parts? Are you more running the shop and making sure jobs are going smoothly?
Joe Couitt:Well, it's kind of spread out, right? It's a week to week basis. You have some some days where it's my consulting stuff takes over, where, you know, I gotta write programs, and you talk to customers, and you're getting everything lined up for them and work through their bugs. When I'm here in Arizona, they may be in Texas or Ohio, and it's a lot of phone time and trying to diagnose what's going on with them, or the opposite is I also do a bunch of third party service for Swiss machines here. So I may go spend a whole week realigning stuff for anybody else, and then on top of that, I have my own Swiss machine now, so, yeah, pumping out parts at the same time. So kind of just, it's like a weird workflow balance.
Aaron Moncur:What's your favorite part about. You
Joe Couitt:do. Well, recently, it's been getting getting my own machine, because it's a it's a couple things. It's one, that's something I've always wanted to do, and two, it's a chance for me and my dad to work together, because my dad's been working with me on that
Aaron Moncur:nice so
Joe Couitt:kind of goes full circle, you know, from when I started, it's just a nice moment to have with them. Yeah, that's wonderful.
Aaron Moncur:So before you got your own machine, where were you working then?
Joe Couitt:So I was working, and technically, at the moment, still am currently employed with full time job on top of all this, wow, yep, where I run just a general machine shop, lades mills and Swiss, just in charge of all.
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Joe Couitt:Well, so what actually started everything was there was a distributor out here. They had a customer that picked up an old Swiss machine from 1984 I believe, been sitting on their shop floor for about four years. Didn't know anything about it. The guy who runs the distributor over there was a great friend of mine, so he offered my contact information to this customer. They called me up. They said, Hey, can you anything with this? I was, like, never heard of it, but yeah, we can give it a shot. We got it up and running. We got it making parts and holding a 10th across, nice everything. So that's, that's what started it. And it actually was my wife who goes, well, if you're going to do this, might as well make it a career, make it a job, make it a business, you know. So then we started that. We started the company together, doing that. And then it just kind of flourished after that, right? It was, it was a lot of remote programming at first, and doing setups and trainings for people, and then got in with another distributor, being a third party, helping with trainings and service. And then always wanted my own machine. And it was, well, as soon as we build enough capital, let's buy one. And then last December we or this past December, we just bit the bullet and bought one.
Aaron Moncur:Well, congratulations. That's super exciting. Thank you. So Swiss, Swiss machining, that is. It's like it's a niche within a niche really there. I don't think there are a ton of truly expert individuals out there when it comes to Swiss machining. So you're kind of like the guy that knows how to do this stuff. It sounds like you're going around, you're you're training other people, you're helping service and fix their machines. Because again, there, there probably just aren't a lot of people out there who know enough to do the training and to do the service and the maintenance. Is that accurate? Yeah, I would say
Joe Couitt:there's a lot of good Swiss machinists out there. There is a huge age gap, right? It's a huge one, and you kind of see it across all machining, right? Or at least, I have noticed it that all the great machinists now are at that age where they're done, they're retiring, they're they're done working. And then you're getting, like a 2025, year age gap between the next people, right? And those people. It's mixed. You got some people want to get their hands dirty. They want to get they want the whole blue collar machining aspect. But also the people of that age group don't, they don't want to get their hands dirty. They don't want to do any of that, you know, they want to do computer work, they want to do web design, they want to graphic design. And there's not a lot of blue collar type people left. So it's, it's an interesting aspect.
Aaron Moncur:Why do you think that that age gap exists? So I guess this age gap kind of indicates that there was a period of time, 25 years, whatever it was, where there was hardly anyone entering into that workforce. But even though you mentioned there might not be as many people now who want to get into that blue collar workforce as. Were, whatever it was 60 years ago. Sounds like there's, there's maybe a mild to moderate renaissance in that field. What sparked that? What's why this 25 year gap and now there's this renaissance?
Joe Couitt:To be honest, I think it was a, my personal opinion. It was a lot of the whole go to school, get a degree, you'll get a six figure job. And what happens is, everybody goes to school, they get a degree, they go out into the working, working field, and everybody goes, Hey, this is great. You have these degrees, what kind of work experience you have. And they go, Well, I've never been in a shop. Well, I'm not going to hire you that. You have to get an internship. You got to start getting your hands dirty to this. And then to this. And then it's like, oh, well, you have to have work experience plus a degree to get here. And then you have the other people who have no college experience and nothing but work experience. And they're, they're coming in, they're like, oh look, I'll show you how to do and they just do it, and they're getting less pay. So it's like a very weird mix, right?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's an interesting dynamic. I don't put a lot. I should be careful how I phrase this. I have a college degree myself, and it was useful teaching me some of the basics of engineering, and probably useful, integrating me into a network of people in the industry who eventually could hire me. But I didn't learn a lot in school that I actually use on the job, CAD, CAD, I learned in school, and I used it a ton. So that was, like the one thing, but everything else, the fluid dynamics, the calculus, the thermo I almost never used, right? I took all these classes that I just really never used, and so I graduated, well, a few years after I'd been working full time and realize what the heck did I need to go to school for? I was on the five year track myself, personally. Why did I have to go to school for five years to, you know, learn, take 10% of that and actually use it at work? So I was kind of jaded actually a few years in. So anyway, I hear what you're saying, and I think there's, there's so much value. And so where do I want to use here? I think it's it. It seems like there's this, maybe not as much now, but 10 years ago, I think this is still true. There's, there's like this, this like badge of honor that that one carries because they have the piece of paper, the college degree, and I don't want to take anything away from that, that's great, right? Like you paid the money, you put in, the time, you learn some stuff. That's useful, great. But I think there should be just as as honorable a badge for people who choose to go the other route, who don't want to spend four or five years in$80,000 going to school, and they just want to start working, and maybe that's in a blue collar job, because it's easier to get into those positions without a degree. I think I'm making an assumption there, but yeah. Anyway, that's that's my diatribe rant for its of the day.
Joe Couitt:It's a funny one, because when I'm talking my dad about it when he was younger, if you worked in the field, and you could prove it and put in the time the effort at these machine shops and go through all these tasks, then, like he was given an engineering degree based off of manufacturing just from working,
Aaron Moncur:wow, honorary degree, yep.
Joe Couitt:And it's a totally different view, but it's like he's no more less an engineer than the person who went to school. In fact, he probably has more hands on knowledge. So it totally Yeah.
Aaron Moncur:Agree, 100% Yep, yeah. I've worked with a lot of engineers over the years, most of whom have degrees, and a few of whom who have not, but I 100% consider them to still be legitimate engineers, because they know what they're doing, and frankly, some of them have been a lot better than the those who have that piece of paper, who have the degree. I had another thought, but, but I lost it. Well, it's,
Joe Couitt:it's very cool, because you the people who don't go to school, they, they, they're not boxed in, right? Their their point of view is not boxed in. It's like, oh, I need to draw this part. They're going to look at it every aspect, just to get it to work. Versus someone's going, well, these are the steps it has to follow to do it. And it's like, yeah, get that. But why? Why can't we do it like this? We still get the same result? So I mean, I've I I have friends that are both right. I have people have gone to school and they're great people and great engineers, and then I have other friends that are just as smart and just as capable, and they have never sat in a classroom outside of high school.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah. Yeah. They're just. Different paths, right? And in my view, as long as you can do the work, I don't really care what what your educational background is or isn't I just care that you can do the work. That's it. And I think some of the large companies even like Google, and I don't know, I can't think of others off the top of my head right now, but I know I've read that they have stopped requiring degrees for some of their technical positions, not all of them, but, but some. And I think that's a great step in the right direction.
Joe Couitt:Yeah. You know, if person's capable of doing the job but doesn't have the degree, why shouldn't they have the job?
Aaron Moncur:Exactly, yeah, 100% we have some core values here at Pipeline. Core value number two is governed by productivity, not bureaucracy. Like to me, yeah, the requiring a degree, I get it like it's a filter. It's a proxy for capability. But it's not always a good proxy for capability. Big companies, they have to find ways to filter people out quickly. Debatable whether or not that's a good practice, but it is a practice, nonetheless, anyway, that to me, that just seems very bureaucratic and not necessarily the most productive way of finding good people agreed. All right, well, are there any any misconceptions that you have found engineers have when it comes to Swiss machining,
Joe Couitt:can you be more that one's hard, right? So it's like, what exactly are you asking, right? Because it's,
Aaron Moncur:I guess we kind of touched on this a little bit like earlier, you were talking about engineers might want to do something impossible, like, I can't get a tool, I can't physically fit a tool in there. And maybe an engineer just thinks, why not? You can put a tool anywhere, right? Yes, any patterns that you've come across where you've seen like multiple occasions, where engineers think they can do something in Swiss machining that they really just can't,
Joe Couitt:yeah, a lot of them would just be certain features, right? Threads is a good one. It's really hard to explain to someone that, hey, this this nuts. Not going to go over this thread all the way unless there's a relief at the back of it, you know, and they're just coming straight up to a shoulder, shoulder, and they're like, Well, how come doesn't screw all the way in? Well, threads stop and there's a shoulder. So, yeah, if you have a thread relief, we can butt it right up.
Aaron Moncur:Geometry, yeah, weird.
Joe Couitt:Outside of that. I mean, a lot of it's just feasibility, right? If they were to take the part and put it in a round, round diameter, it's like, okay, is this really meant to go on a Swiss machine? You know, it's their churn stuff. Can we pick up on it? Can we, can we do turning? Or is it a complete mill part where it's like, yeah, it's feasible to do it. We can do the job, but it's not practical. So a lot of it, I guess, the biggest misconception would be, or the biggest flaw with was trying to put unpractical stuff on the Swiss machine and just that
Aaron Moncur:don't really fit on a Swiss part, yeah? Or a part that doesn't fit there?
Joe Couitt:Yeah, we can do it, but it's not practical. It's like taking us 20 minutes apart to do it, when it could be done in half the time on a mill.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah. Is it pretty common that you'll see parts where a portion of that part really should be done on on a mill, and then, and and then you take that part and you put it into your Swiss machine and finish it off. Or maybe it's vice versa. You started on the Swiss machine and then finish
Joe Couitt:it on a mill for the most part. I mean, I'd say about 99% of a Swiss job is meant process to finish, to be done, complete in the machine. Yeah, whether it's all deburring. I mean, there are some aspects, you know, you got to tumble parts to get a certain finish, because you can't machine something that low finish, or it's got to be plated or something like that. But, I mean, the general concept is, when you're going to machine something on a Swiss machine, it's start to finish, complete, right? We see a lot of parts, or I've seen a lot of parts in general, machine shops where they're doing them on a lathe and then taking them off, putting them on a hardened lathe, facing the back of it, then putting it on a mill and putting some flats on it. It's like, okay, but on a Swiss machine, we can mill the flats, then we can face the back and drop the part. Complete. You
Aaron Moncur:the pipeline now offers procurement of custom machined parts at significantly lower costs without sacrificing speed or quality. We design and build custom machines ourselves, so we consume a lot of precision. Machined components. Over the past several years, we developed a proven overseas supply chain to support that work, and in 2025 we successfully piloted that capability with select customers. Now we're opening it up more broadly. If you'd like to see how our prices and lead times compare, send us a drawing or two for quote, visit team pipeline.us, or message me directly on LinkedIn. How would you how do you mill the flats on the Swiss machine? Do you have a tool that holds like a typical end mill cutter on it that can put flats on a part.
Joe Couitt:Yeah. So we have your typical configuration of a Swiss machine, or at least my my Swiss is I have five turning tools or stick tools, so that's cut off, turning tools back, turning tools, thread bars, groove, groove tools. Then I have four live tools, two of which sit in ER 11. Call it so small, quarter inch or smaller tools, two larger live tools that are er 16. Call it so up to 10 millimeters and live
Aaron Moncur:that indicates some kind of motion right there. They're spinning. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Joe Couitt:Sorry, yeah. So though I have four live tools that are on the cross, and then on my my current setup, I have four live face tools too. So they're spinning tools, whether there be end mills, chamfer tools, engraving, yeah, so we can do milling, engraving, drilling, tapping, everything on the side, any type of crossword.
Aaron Moncur:I didn't realize how versatile Swiss machining was. You can do all
Joe Couitt:kinds of things, yes, super intricate. That's, again, one of the things that drove me to it was how much they pack into such a small little package. And you do some pretty
Aaron Moncur:crazy parts. I'm listening to describe this, and I'm thinking, how do they package all of these tools in such a small space? A lot of money, lots of investment in the design of these machines.
Joe Couitt:Yes. I mean, I think if you were to buy a brand new citizen today, a 20 millimeter one you're looking hope no one quotes me on this, but I want to say it's in the ballpark of$300,000
Aaron Moncur:that's a lot of lot of dollars. Yeah, I have a couple more questions about the business, or at least you starting a business in Swiss machining. You seem like the kind of guy who really loves and prefers getting your hands dirty, like you want to be in there making parts. How has it been for you starting a business and now you have to focus on more than just being the operator, the machinist, making the parts, but you have to, like, go out and do sales and marketing and like business development. How have you dealt with all of that? It's a strong learning curve.
Joe Couitt:And to be honest, super grateful for my wife. She has been the keeper of the path. On that one, she's helped out with a lot of the sales stuff, a lot of the invoicing stuff, basically keeping track of everything, bookkeeping, helping me pivot and learn how to do different things, you know. So she'll take over some aspects of it, like you need to focus on talking to customers. That's where your strong point is, you know, I'll talk to them face to face, because get me in front of somebody. It's like they obviously understand that I know what I'm talking about, versus just an email, and she helps with that aspect a lot.
Aaron Moncur:Sounds like a perfect team. The two of you make we try? Yeah, well, great. Good for the two of you. All right, let's see. I've got one, one more question for you, and then we'll wrap things up here. So you've been super generous sharing all kinds of information with us about how to design for Swiss turn part, some of the capabilities, what to watch out for, misconceptions, things like that. And I am sure that all the listeners here are very grateful for all that information. One of the things I'm trying to do with this podcast is to connect people. Let's connect people and resources and content and education so that we accelerate the speed of engineering for our entire community, engineering and manufacturing. So is there something that you're trying to learn, or a person that you're trying to meet, a technology you're trying to understand, that perhaps one of the listeners who is consuming this podcast episode right now might be able to help you with
Joe Couitt:I would love to learn more about CAD drawings, right? I would consider myself very archaic when it comes to it. I can. Raw, just about anything with enough time. Yeah, but there's so many shortcuts and so many things. I've watched other people be like, Oh no, just do it like this, or just click this and these concentric points or these tangent points, and it will do it for you. If I could know more about CAD systems themselves and how they work, SolidWorks or onshape, or any of those, that would be super helpful.
Aaron Moncur:So like a crash course in how to use CAD to design parts.
Joe Couitt:Is that, like a proper way to do it? Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Cuz I know when I do it, it's a lot of broken pieces that are then trimmed together and the end, it's the same model, but it's not a conclusive one tree model, if that
Aaron Moncur:makes sense, yeah, I hear, I hear what you're saying 100% I remember going through this learning curve myself back when I was a very young engineer, and one of the things I learned was that there are a lot of tutorials out there that show you where the button is to do a thing, but not necessarily, like when you should use that button, or why you should use that button, or how you should order your feature tree, all the different features that go into creating a CAD model, right? Yeah, there's not a lot of great content out there, but so yeah, Joe, if all of you, dear listeners right now, if you know of a great course right now that Joe could take, or you have some material or resources that you'd love to share, please reach out to Joe and share that with him and and help him along in his journey. And Joe, what's, the best way for people to get a hold of
Joe Couitt:you as of right now, if they can reach out to my website, it's JMC Swiss solutions.com or on Instagram, same handle JMC Swiss solutions. Those are the two avenues that could reach me. The best,
Aaron Moncur:perfect, great. All right, you all heard it. JMC Swiss solutions.com you can find Joe there if you want to share some resources for Best Practices using CAD. Not just here's the button to do this thing, but why you use it, how you order your feature tree, things like that. Joe, is there a particular CAD system that you're trying to learn? You mentioned SolidWorks and onshape, two of the big heavy hitters. But is there a particular system that you would like to learn?
Joe Couitt:No, those are the two that I work with the most. So if I could some general knowledge to increase my knowledge of that stuff, would be great. Awesome.
Aaron Moncur:All right, Joe, anything else that you want to share or that we haven't talked about, that you think would be useful or interesting for the listeners, before we sign off here, I think we're good. Okay, yeah, awesome. Well, thanks so much for being on the show. This was super fun. It was interesting for me learning more about Swiss machining, because, frankly, I didn't know a lot about it before, so it's been educational for me, and I'm sure that all of the 1000s of engineers who are going to listen to this episode will feel the same way as well. So thank you so much for being on with me today and sharing all of your experience and wisdom and insights with the community. Thank you for
Joe Couitt:having me. It was a blast, more fun than I expected.
Aaron Moncur:All right. All right. Thanks a lot, man. We'll talk to you later. I'm Aaron Moncur, founder of pipeline design and engineering. If you liked what you heard today, please share the episode to learn how your team can leverage our team's expertise developing advanced manufacturing processes, automated machines and custom fixtures, complemented with product design and R D services. Visit us at Team pipeline.us. To join a vibrant community of engineers online. Visit the wave dot engineer, thank you for listening. Being an engineer has more than 300 episodes, and you don't have to listen to them in order. If you're dealing with a specific challenge right now, there's a good chance we've already interviewed an engineer who's been through it. You can jump around search by topic and listen to what's most relevant to you. See you on the next episode, you.
