Being an Engineer
Being an Engineer
S6E50 Brad & Aaron | The Case for Better Professional Communication
In this special format-breaking episode of the Being An Engineer podcast, Aaron and Brad sit down together—no guest, no script—to talk through an issue almost every engineer has bumped into at some point: the slow erosion of professional communication.
The conversation starts with a LinkedIn post Brad wrote after experiencing repeated ghosting during his job search—even after multi-hour onsite interviews and commitments from hiring managers. That sparks a broader discussion about the shifting expectations around communication in today’s workforce, how different generations approach feedback and follow-through, and what’s driving the breakdown of mutual respect between candidates, companies, vendors, and customers.
Aaron shares stories from his 16 years running Pipeline Design & Engineering, including how silence from prospective clients affects small engineering firms and why reciprocity is essential for trust in any business relationship. The two also talk openly about dealing with ambiguity, stress, and the pressure for instant answers in a world where patience is becoming rare.
This episode explores:
· Why ghosting is becoming normalized—and why it shouldn’t be
· How feedback and clarity can drastically change hiring experiences
· The role of generational differences in communication styles
· How ambiguity affects engineers and leaders at every level
· Practical frameworks for reducing stress and strengthening trust
· Why “say what you’re going to do, then do it” still matters
· A challenge to listeners to help rebuild professional respect, one small action at a time
Aaron and Brad wrap up with a call to action: if you’re ever in a position to choose—whether selecting candidates, vendors, or partners—take the minute to close the loop. Be the change you want to see in the industry.
Let us know what you think of this new conversational format, what topics you’d like us to tackle next, or whether we should stick to the classic interview style. Drop us a note on LinkedIn, on The Wave, or at info@teampipeline.us.
LINKS:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/pipeline-media-lab/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/pipelinedesign/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradhirayama/
Aaron Moncur, host
Download the Essential Guide to Designing Test Fixtures: https://pipelinemedialab.beehiiv.com/test-fixture
About Being An Engineer
The Being An Engineer podcast is a repository for industry knowledge and a tool through which engineers learn about and connect with relevant companies, technologies, people resources, and opportunities. We feature successful mechanical engineers and interview engineers who are passionate about their work and who made a great impact on the engineering community.
The Being An Engineer podcast is brought to you by Pipeline Design & Engineering. Pipeline partners with medical & other device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, automation equipment, assembly jigs, inspection stations and more. You can find us on the web at www.teampipeline.us
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of The being an engineer podcast, I've got my partner in crime, Brad Hirayama with me. If you are following the podcast closely, you probably heard our episode just a few weeks ago where we kicked things off with PML, the pipeline Media Lab. We are exploring some new formats for the podcast. Don't worry, we will, for the most part, maintain what we have been doing today, the typical interview format style. But we're also going to sprinkle in some new formats in there, and this is the one that we're starting with, where Brad and I just kind of riff. We have thoughts and opinions on things, strong thoughts and opinions on things. And likely all of you out there has some of these same thoughts and opinions, and we would love to hear what your responses are when we share some of our feelings about things. So that's what we're going to do today. We have kind of a loose topic that we're going to start with, and then we'll kind of just go from there. So with that, Brad, I noticed a intriguing LinkedIn post that you shared probably a couple of weeks ago at this point, and I won't spoil the fun by sharing the topic. I'll let you do that. But when I read this post, I thought, oh, man, we need to talk about this, because I have strong feelings about this topic as well. So with that, I'll turn it over to you, and you can introduce this topic
Brad Hirayama:All right. So I'll tell a little bit of the backstory. This past year has been a year of transition for me, a year of change. Had my first child earlier this year, very intentionally, took some time off to focus on family, to focus on the transition to fatherhood, wearing my dad hat, my new favorite hat. And I made the choice about four or so months ago to really start to get back into the interview cycles, understanding what companies were out there, who was who was hiring, and, you know, looking for kind of that transition back into the full time work workforce. And one of the things that I that really just irked me during my search was I was having a lot of really good conversations, a lot of good initial conversations that would lead to on sites or one on ones with hiring managers, or introductions with, you know, different recruiters, and the tendency to get past that first stage of you know, you're just one in a million, right? You know, hundreds and hundreds of applications are coming in, and you're getting to the stage where they've narrowed it down, probably under 20 people, maybe under 10 people. And you're having these good conversations, you know, you feel good about coming out of these interviews, and then crickets, and it's not even, you know, hey, we're going to give you, you know, we're going to give you an update in a week, and then they come back in a week and say, Hey, we need more time. It's, you know, we're going to get back to you in a week, and after you follow up in a week, nothing, absolutely nothing. And it's rampant to me across pretty much every interview that I've had where companies have kind of normalized this. You know, the candidates that you don't pick, they don't really matter. They, you know, it seems like they get kind of pushed to the side. And, you know, even the candidates that are trying to learn from their mistakes, or perceived mistakes, or why they weren't a fit. You know, that's just not a priority for a lot of these companies. And a couple weeks ago, I'm I made a post after, probably, you know, the dozenth time that I've been ghosted after, you know, spending four and a half hours on site with this company, being told that I was one of five that they were deciding on, you know, being told they were going to get back to me in a week. And, you know, multiple weeks had had gone by. Multiple emails have gone just unanswered. I've tried the trick where you try to add the hiring manager on LinkedIn, you know, after a few weeks to try to kind of get another angle in there, you know, and I made a post about that respect, and the type of treatment that candidates are getting in this current job market, and the lack of communication, the lack of professional. Communication. And that really led to me thinking about, well, what is the real problem? What is the crux of this professional communication issue? And I wrote a little bit about it. We have an article now that's on the wave. You know, head over to the wave. I think it's called the case for better professional communication. And it's just been something that's on my mind that I think we all need to do better, that I think that from the candidate side and from the company side, there needs to be a way where mutual respect is expected from everybody. But we live in a a time when that level of professionalism is gone. It just doesn't seem like it's like it's there anymore. And you know, when I, when I made that post, it was really interesting that, you know, the a lot of the comments that I that, that I got, you know, half of them were defending the companies, and I think the other half were sharing the same sentiment of instances where they've been ghosted as well, you know, after, you know, being on site for multiple hours, and it just kind of shows that there is a divide, and there is a very pronounced issue that I think needs to be talked about, and I think it needs to be addressed, and it starts from the individual.
Aaron Moncur:In my in my opinion, this is such a an infuriating topic to me, because I feel like it's it's so disrespectful to ask for and receive all of the attention that the candidates are giving. You mentioned four and a half hours on site, plus all the preparation you probably did before even getting there, and then just crickets, right like no follow up communication, even though these companies have made promises that they're going to do so my son recently applied for and got an internship. He's a senior in high school right now, he's interested in engineering, and there's this aerospace company locally, and he applied for an internship there. He did an interview as the first, well, not quite the first, one of the first interviews that he's ever done, right? He's young. He's just starting into this world, and I thought it was so clever of him. I don't know if he heard this a pro tip from someone else, or if he just came up with it on his own, but I thought it was so strategic and smart. At the end of the interview, he asked his interviewer, how did I do? Can you give me some feedback? I'm new to this process. I haven't done many interviews, and I'm just looking for some feedback. How did I do? And the interviewer gave him some feedback and and later told him that the reason they hired him was because he asked that question. And I thought it was so great that they actually took the time to give him that feedback, and then, and then even go one step further, let him know, hey, the reason we hired you was because you asked for this. So I think that's an example of really great communication from from a company, right? It doesn't take long, like, literally, it probably took this guy, like, a minute to give my son some feedback, and then after they hired him, another 30 Seconds to be like, Oh, by the way, the reason we hired you is because of this. So my point is, it doesn't take long at all, and, and it does happen out there sometimes, but to your point, Brad, I think it happens far too infrequently.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, you know. And that's a that's a great story, because that's a great example of we are in a time where we see five different generations of workers in the workforce, right? Your your son entering the workforce. Now, he is part of this kind of bring up, of this new what would he be considered Gen X? Is it? I've lost Gen Z? I don't know. I think he's Gen he's Gen Z, but, you know, even my sister, my sister is turning, just turned 21 so she's, you know, going through college, and she's getting, you know, into kind of the understanding of internships and those types of things, you know, the way that she communicates is just different. And, you know, that's, that's one of the things that, I think that is becoming very apparent is, you know, a lot of culture that is being that was built for a lot of these bigger companies, well established companies, were built in a time when a lot of the professionals that are currently interviewed. Doing and trying to get into these roles like we weren't even a part of the workforce, and it's not been adapted widely, for for everybody and that, and I think that's where a lot of the the disconnect is happening, is you have expectations from both sides, whether stated expectations, stated asks. You know, even if they're out in the out in the forefront, whatever is actually in your mind, or kind of in that back of your mind, that's what you're going to fall back on. Right? And these companies are forcing people to make decisions faster, to take on more, right? That's kind of this great tightening of the workforce. And so you just people are falling back onto whatever their natural styles are, and that's just not working for this current state of the world. And so it's refreshing to hear the other side. You know, I really like to hear those stories where it's like, oh, somebody took the time to give you good feedback and to, you know, take the time to tell you this is why we're doing what we're doing. That's great. And I hope, and I wish that your son learns so much more from this company than just engineering. It sounds like he will.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, he definitely has. He's loving his time there, and part of that is just because people communicate,
Brad Hirayama:yeah, and that's the and that's the best thing is, you know, if he can learn to be a good communicator. I think that's, you know, you you have the upper hand on 50% of the other engineers that are out there
Aaron Moncur:at least. Yeah, yeah, at least. So I'm an employer. I've been an employer for 16 years now at pipeline, and I've hired plenty of people, and I've not hired plenty of people, but interviewed them, and I've always made it a point, if I'm not going to hire someone, I let them know, like with some level of detail. This is why we chose someone other than you. I think that's the decent and respectful thing to do. I would love to hear from now. Pipeline is pretty small, right? 1520, people. So maybe that's different. We're a small company. We're nimble, not a lot of bureaucracy at all. We can make choices very quickly. Maybe it's different in the context of hiring, but I kind of don't think so. I feel like maybe people are hiding behind walls of bureaucracy and using that as a crutch to to not just be, be a decent human being and like, let the other person know, give them some quick feedback. And anyway, what I was going to say is I would love to hear from a hiring manager out there. It may be one of the bigger companies, and if they're willing come on the show and share your point of view, because two sides to every coin right like we see one side pretty strongly, but there's probably another side that we don't fully appreciate, and genuinely, I would love to understand what the constraints are, what that other side looks like. So if you're a hiring manager and you'd like to come on and share your side of things. By all means, let us know. We'd love to have a respectful conversation, to just learn what what it is we're missing here. I have, I've experienced the same thing outside of interviews.
Brad Hirayama:Aaron, can we? Can we pause really quick. I'm I'm really curious. So you know, you've, you've been doing this now for 16 years. You've, you've run a company for 16 years. You've, you've hired, you've not hired. Did your communication style and your kind of ideal of wanting to be to give feedback, to take the time to actually communicate with your candidates. Did that start from day one? Was that something that you developed, was that something that you felt like it was a responsibility of yours from the start, kind of, why did you feel like that's that's part of what your responsibility is to these candidates do?
Aaron Moncur:Have you ever built a test fixture that didn't work well? Most engineers have, usually because of hidden pitfalls you wouldn't know to look for if you don't design fixtures all day. After watching this happen for years, we built a simple five step framework that gets fixtures right the first time, and we packaged it in a free guide called The Essential Guide to designing test fixtures. If you want more accurate, repeatable data and fewer redesigns, grab the guide at PM, l, dot, engineer, forward slash, test, dash fixture, get it, steal the framework and level up your fixture game. Yeah, I don't know where it started, if I'm being perfectly honest, but I have always thought of commitment and obligation as such critical parts of life, like if I make a commitment to another person, I will move heaven and earth to fulfill that commitment. It just It means a lot to me personally, and it drives me crazy when other people don't do the same. I remember when, when I got laid off 16 years ago, the engineering company I was working at, and we still had a good relationship, even though I got laid off and they knew that I was going to go off and try freelancing on my own and and I remember one of the owners of the company pulling me aside one day and said, Hey, don't worry. We're going to, we're going to send you some work, right? It will help you get started. And that never happened. And it was like it was so frustrating that people tell you one thing and then just do the opposite. So I don't know exactly where that started, but my whole life, I've always been big on commitments, and like, if you make a commitment to someone, then you better fulfill that commitment or almost die trying.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, is this something that you push down to the rest of your team as well. Is this something that kind of is become a guiding value at pipeline of this, open communication, open feedback, those, those types of things.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, we don't have a formal core value that's like, keep your commitments, but I think culture always comes from the top down, and I am big on keeping my commitments, and I, I don't know if it's passed down for me to the rest of the team or if that's just a behavior that the rest of the team already had, but yeah, I definitely see that.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, I I do see, you know, in smaller companies that who is doing the hiring who is leading the hiring process, really does make a difference. And, you know, I very excitedly, can share a little bit more, I think, at a later time, but I just accepted an offer from a company where it's small enough that I interacted with the hiring manager pretty much the whole time, and he was the one that did all the communication, and I found somebody who actually wanted to communicate, which was incredibly, just refreshing in this, you know, time that I've that I've been kind of in the market for a new job. So, you know, kudos to what you've built. And I think that it's something, it's a lesson that can be taken for everybody that you know, kind of look at your values, right? And what do you value, and look outwardly, not just in internal. So sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you and you know, but I was really curious about, is this something that you developed or not? And it seems like this is just something that's been innate for you,
Aaron Moncur:I think so it's just been part of my personality for as long as I can remember. Congratulations on on the new job. That's awesome. Amazing news. I wanted to point out that this, this lack of communication, or just like human decency, it's not limited to interviews. Interviewing process does not have a monopoly on this. The reason I feel so strongly about this topic is because I experienced this as well, not as someone interviewing for a job. Well, in a way, actually, I work on a lot of quotes that we send out to our customers, right? They come to us with an application. We need to build this machine, we need to build this fixture, and we put together a quote and send it to them, and we ghosted like all the time, not all the time, but I don't know, 40% of the time something like that, right? Not. I completely understand that not every quote is going to turn into a PO. That's fine. That's just part of doing business. But when a customer just stops responding like doesn't say anything, oh, man, that drives me crazy. It makes me so angry and frustrated, we had a brand new prospective customer. It was a few months ago, and we went to their facility and saw a couple of the applications that they were wanting us to quote some new automation machines. And so we were working directly with, like, executive leadership at this company. And I remember one of the individuals we were working with said to us, Hey, I just want you to know that, like, when we start engaging with a company, even if the project doesn't necessarily go forward and happen, but if we start engaging with someone like, we're going to go all the way through. Process, and we're going to be communicative and respond quickly. And I thought, Oh, that is so refreshing to hear. I love that you know. Thank you so much, both for letting us know and for for being that way. So we, we sent a quote off to this company, and crickets exactly what they said they weren't going to do, they did. It was like, ah, even when they tell us they're going to be responsive and communicative, they're they're not. So anyway, it's just, it's like, I don't know, I'm kind of ranting at this point, but it's so frustrating to me, and I don't know what the answer is, but yeah, I guess this episode is just a little bit about ranting
Brad Hirayama:well and definitely, and it's and I can see how that's frustrating. You know, I've been on the other side. I've I haven't worked for a service company. I've always worked for OEMs, and so I always make it a point for myself. If I've gotten a quote from you, I will be the first to tell you that we're not going to go with your quote, and I usually will give, try to give some type of feedback as to, why is it cost? Is it timeline? Is it, you know, just the project has gone a different, different direction, or I don't understand how to make it work, and we don't have the budget to bring in consulting hours, you know, I'm just, I think that for me, the the expectation, I expect that level of communication and kind of respect from other people to me, so I give it back, you know, and I think that's, that's what it comes down to, is, you know, every, every OEM, is going to try to promise the world to their service providers, because You're the ones that are going to give us the stuff that we need, right? It potentially, eventually, right? I just, you know, where did we go wrong? Where these, like, open or broken promises, right? What are they called? Open, open promises, where, you know, like they told you, this is what we're going to do, and then they didn't follow up, right? Completely, 180 it's not like they even tried. And then, you know, taper it off. It's just It went from, you know, we're going to be super communicative, to nothing, right? Where did, where did we go wrong? You know, where does, where is that professionalism standard come from, and where has it gone?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, it's interesting to think about. Is this generational? I don't know that it is, because probably most hiring managers are like, not brand new to the industry, right? It's not like they're the brand new generation that's that's that's entering. But I read a LinkedIn post the other day, this guy talking about how travel has changed, like people don't want to talk on the airplanes anymore. Hey, I'm guilty of that. I freely admit I just want to do my own thing. But he had this list of all the things that have changed in the past, you know, 20 years with business travel. And I thought, Ah, here's the the older generation being upset that, like times have changed and the world has moved on. And I wonder, I don't think this is the case, but, you know, maybe there's a case to be made that this is just another example of that where it used to be this way, where if you said you were going to do something, you actually do it, or you give the other person the respect of a follow up. And that's just not how the world communicates anymore. And I don't know how that happened, but I don't know. I would love to hear other people's thoughts on that, if they have ideas about the nexus of this problem. Or if, maybe, maybe this is just something that you and I have seen Brad and so we're acutely aware of it, but, but others are like, No, this isn't a problem. This is like, this happens once in 100 times. You know, it'd be here interesting to hear other people's perspectives on this. Hit us up on LinkedIn, or go go over to the wave and put a comment on Brad's article. But would love to hear other thoughts.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, and generationally, too, I think that there's value in understanding the way that the different generations are approaching these types of problems. I was on the phone the other day with customer support as we're dealing with some medical insurance stuff, and I, you know, had to give my give my birthday and and whatever. And just so happened, the customer service agent that I was talking had the same birthday as me, except he was 11 years younger, wow. And so, you know, I just, I just kind of laughed because it's funny, because that's, you know, he's 20, right? He just turned 20 this this year. And so we're having this conversation. And the. The communication style is completely different. He was very much about, get to the point, solve the problem. I am very much about, maybe this is just the way that I think, but I'm very much about, let's get to the root of the problem, right? You have a surface level problem, but let's think through maybe two or three steps deeper. And he couldn't get there with me. You know? He kept trying to just solve that first level problem. And so I'm starting to think too now, is there something about the generational gap, where expectations are just different, you know? And I'll share one more, one more story. It's kind of funny that. So my sister is 10 years younger, younger than me, so she's in college right right now. And even when she was in high school, middle school with her friends, I always used to make the joke that there were times when her and her friends were together that I couldn't understand a word that they were saying. You know, they kind of have their own language. But there's also the notion that there were times where their togetherness was sitting in a circle playing games on their computer, and I never understood that. I didn't have that growing up. And I'm kind of in this weird shoulder generation where I had computers, but it also wasn't the biggest part of my life growing up. Now it is right, the phones and social media and everything that's a little different, but maybe there is a difference that we need to understand. We as, you know, senior level engineering leaders need to understand how everybody both above us and below us in generation, how they think, how they operate, what are their expectations? I think that that's where I'm trying to understand the most, is I want to hear different perspectives, right? I want to hear like you're saying, you know, we want to hear from hiring managers to tell us that you guys are off base, right, or, you know, contradict us. But on the topic of communication, I want to hear from people of all walks of life to say, Yeah, this is a this is an expect, expectation that I had that is not being met currently within within the industry, because I think that this topic is not going to get changed, or it's not going to get better, or there's really not going to even be any thought given to it, if it's not brought to the forefront, and there's not people that are willing to have These conversations and maybe be a little polarizing about what needs to be done in order for us in this current time to really operate and show the respect and, you know, bring that communicative value to the forefront.
Aaron Moncur:Amen. All right, well, have we beat this horse to death?
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, I think so, you know, I, I really, you know, we've, we've done a lot of, I think complaining it seems like for the first half. Let's talk about what we think we could do to make things better. So, you know, I for my, for my, it just, it really starts with you, right? I think it really starts with you. And, you know, I in the in the article that I, that I wrote, I based that article on the author, Brene Brown, her concept of clearest kind. And you know, speaking specifically about the hiring process, right, kindness is allowing yourself to feel a little bit uncomfortable by rejecting somebody, right? But I think that we need to expand that outwardly, not just into, you know, certain specific situations. I think that kindness needs to be something that we focus on in business in order for us to get back to that respectful side. Be kind in your communication, right? Kind language? Yes, all of the you know, natural stuff, but what I'm talking about is taking the time to craft an email, taking that 30 seconds or minute, whatever it is, to craft an email and say, Hey, I'm going to close the loop. But this is. Just not for me. That's being kind, taking the time to tell somebody, Hey, what you said to me that didn't really land. Well, it's not a, not a really good way to give me feedback. That's being kind, you know. And I think that we need to bring that and normalize it within the workforce.
Aaron Moncur:I hired a sales coach many years ago and cost me a lot of money, and as I wrote this guy a check for the full amount before we started, he told me something that honestly was worth that full amount and more. It was probably the most valuable thing I learned during that. The course of this training with him, he said, take, take what's on the inside, put it on the outside and talk about it, which I think is pretty similar to what you're saying. There's a friend of mine who he works at a manufacturing company out there. I won't, I won't share the name, but he works at this company, and I've wanted to do business with this company for a long time. This is going several years back now, and I was always very cognizant of like, not using our relationship as friends to get pipeline's foot in the door from a commercial standpoint. And at one point, an opportunity came up, and they reached out to us, not him directly, but a team there reached out to us and said, Hey, we've got this opportunity. We'd like you to quote it. Great. We quoted it, and then exactly what we've been talking about, crickets, right? We just heard nothing for weeks. Followed up couple times, tried to call nothing. And so I thought, Man, I'm just going to reach out to this friend of mine and ask him if he knows what's going on. So I did that, sent him an email. I said, Hey, there was this opportunity. We give him a quote we haven't heard anything back. Is there any inside information that you can share with me? Sent it off, and right after I sent it, I felt like maybe, did I just cross a line right there, like, is he going to see this as me trying to use our friendship for, you know, pipelines, commercial gain. And I remembered that that phrase that my sales coach had taught me, take what's on the inside, put it on the outside and talk about it. So I called him up and I said, Hey, I just sent you this email. And right after I sent it, I felt like maybe I shouldn't have sent that, like maybe it was crossing a friendship line. How are you feeling about this? And he said, I'm glad you called, because I actually was feeling like that, a little bit like, oh, is Aaron just trying to use our friendship to, like, get business from from this company. Anyway, we talked it out, and it was great afterwards. You know, it took like, four minutes. We had a quick phone call, and everything was great at the end. And had I not called and take what's on the inside, put it on the outside and talk about it, there probably would have been some, some weirdness, some awkwardness that existed between us. So that's just another way of saying what you were talking about. Also, one other thought I want to share is that I think societies are based on reciprocity. And some people might say, well, society is based on truth, but truth, truth, what kind of truth? The the truth that if I do something for you, you're going to do something for me. Let's say that you go to the grocery store and you you hand over your money to the attendant at the the, you know, the checkout counter and and then they say, well, we're not going to give you the food, right? And you're like, well, that that doesn't work. There is this reciprocity, this expectation, this this truth that if I give you this money, like, there is an expectation that you're going to reciprocate by giving me what what I expect. And I think this lack of communication that we're seeing in the industry is is a form of breaking that reciprocity and and once reciprocity breaks down, society breaks down. I'm being a little bit dramatic here, right? I'm taking it to the nth degree, but like, if you keep pushing it, eventually, that's what happens. We don't have we don't trust each other anymore, and in society, can't function without trust well, so
Brad Hirayama:let's, let's take it a step further, and let's think about what is the tipping point where, you know, I've been on the side where I'm trying to find, say, a vendor for some service that I need. And I always have the question, I think, the first question, how do I trust these people? No, right? And is that the consequence of continuously, kind of living within this world where that principle of reciprocity is becoming less and less of an expected thing other than you know, like you're saying, right? If I give you money, you give me my food, right? That's, that's kind of understood, but in business, is that reciprocity, that respect, that mutual understanding becoming stagnant, right? And, you know, let's, let's kind of go through a little bit of a thought experiment and think about what's going to happen to businesses if we go down a path where the main question that needs to be answered, and everybody is trying to answer it, is, how do I trust you? How do I trust that you're not just going to take my money and run. How do I trust that the quality of service that you're going to give me is what I expect right now? All of that comes from, from, from, from what right so are we? Are we at that tipping point is? Is this the point where, with the internet and social media and, you know, the different sales, marketing channels and AI, oh, yeah, let's, let's not get started on AI. We can probably do a whole thing on AI. But is, is this a tipping point where we need to do something about changing the way that we build those types of professional relationships. In order for you know, the kind of social norm, societal norm of this theory of principle of reciprocity can exist still, yeah,
Aaron Moncur:and it seems simple to me again. I would love to hear other people's thoughts. Why am I oversimplifying this? Or how am I oversimplifying this? What am I missing? But it seems simple to me because, generally speaking, it does not take much time at all to reciprocate, to share that feedback to be communicative. Oh, I had a thought, Where was I going with this? I might have to come back to it, but it doesn't take very long to do this, right? So be the change. I remember what it was. This is how you build trust. You say what you're going to do, and then you do that thing. It's not hard, and it doesn't take a long time. If you're a hiring manager and you don't intend to respond to the applicant at all, if you don't choose them, just say that. Say if you don't hear from me, it's because we want a different direction, and I'm not willing to share anything else. I'd rather hear that. Then, yeah, I'll get back to you next week, and then crickets, right? Same thing if you're working with a vendor, I would much rather hear if you don't hear from us, is because we want a different direction, and you know, no offense, we just we don't have the time to get back to you. I would much rather hear that. Then we'll get back to you next week, and then cricket. So say what you're going to do and then do that thing. And it doesn't need to be a huge thing can be, you know, takes you 30 seconds a minute, to do whatever that thing was. But small commitments lead to big commitments lead to a lot of trust and trust. I heard someone say, once they use their either use the word trust or honesty, but same thing in this context, if trust or honesty didn't exist in the world, it ought to be invented as the best tool for business available.
Unknown:I love that, and I hope that that's something that
Brad Hirayama:everybody should just put on their wall as kind of a one of their guiding principles for do business. I have a question for you that kind of switches gears, if you don't mind. Yeah, a little bit. So I've been giving a lot of thought about ambiguity and functioning in a ambiguous space. And I think a lot of where this strife comes from when it comes to ghosting is you're you're forced into an ambiguous space where I don't really know what the answer is, right when it comes to kind of this job hiring, I don't know where you stand. You haven't communicated to me after your kind of deadline what the holdup is or the issue is. I don't know. So I'm I'm operating in this ambiguous space. One thing that I have kind of, you know, backed out of, kind of where a lot of this, I don't want to call it anxiety, but this kind of angst that you have when you're in this ambiguous space, I think, is our world now is around instant gratification, right? Emails, text messages, even little things like read receipts, I think is really interesting, because it takes away the ambiguity of life. Aaron, you're not going to use the word you're definitely smarter than me by many years.
Aaron Moncur:I'll push back there. There are many different types of smart and I have maybe one of several. But okay, let's go on. You're You're
Brad Hirayama:very much more experienced than me in the word old, many of years. I didn't say it. No, I said it. And you grew up in a generation where, you know, a lot of these instant gratification tools kind of came to light in your later more experienced years, more WISE. WISE. Yes, that's a good word. Now, do you think that, how do you talk to me about how you handle ambiguity? Is it something that is causes rumination and this kind of angst, this bubble in your gut, is it something that you've learned and are okay to sit with and kind of be okay, like, if it kind of just fizzles off and goes away, like, that's kind of okay. Like, talk to me about that.
Aaron Moncur:I have plenty of thoughts about this. I do not have a silver bullet solution to this, but plenty of thoughts. So you use the word ambiguity. I'm going to associate that with with stress or anxiety. A coach of mine once told me that stress is the result of placing your focus on an uncertain future, which is basically ambiguity. You don't know what's going to happen. And I, I struggle with stress. Definitely I have for probably my well more and more after starting pipeline, and like the stress of a business being so real, right? I'm responsible for feeding the families of my team, not to mention my own family. So I would say that my level of stress has gone up. My level of ambiguity has risen since starting pipeline, and I've had to deal with it. I don't think I again. I don't have a silver bullet like this is something that it's a journey that I've been on for a long time and still don't have a perfect solution. People talk about meditation. I've, I've done meditation, and it does help. It definitely does help. It's not going to solve it, but it does help. Honestly, for me, what has been the biggest help? And this is an answer that's not really an answer, but the when I find myself amongst ambiguity and kind of spiraling into this state of mind of being stressed out and anxious, ultimately, the only thing that has really completely eradicated that stress or anxiety is solving the root problem that led to that stress or anxiety. And you know, that's a tough thing to do, right? Because not all issues in life are simple and easily solvable, but this is why I say this is an answer that's not really an answer. That's the best way I've found to eliminate stress is to identify the source, the real, the root problem, and then solve that problem. And you can't always do that, so when you can't do that, you know, things like meditation have definitely helped. Going on walks have helped, just being out in nature, getting good sleep, you know, maybe taking naps, even during the day. These, these are things that have all helped me. Physical exercise. I've done jiu jitsu now for seven or eight years, and I call it my therapy. And it really is, like it helps me calm my mind. It's one of the few times when my mind isn't just like bouncing between a dozen different ideas and pathways Jiu Jitsu, I can just focus. Based on one thing, the person who's trying to choke me and and that's all I have to worry about. So those are a few thoughts, no silver, silver bullets, no. Like real answers. But those are some of my thoughts on that topic.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, you know, I don't necessarily think that there is a singular, a singular answer here. I think, you know, this got me thinking. It got me thinking about this. I had lunch the other day with a very much wiser colleague of mine. I will not use the O word, you know, who's towards the end of his career. He's, he's going to be retiring soon. He's pretty high up there in the in the ranks of, I would say, like a medium, large company. So like you're saying, there's a lot of stress, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with his job and his life, and I asked him this question about sitting in an ambiguous space and sitting in limbo, you know, if he's asking his team for an answer to a question, does he sit there and ruminate? When are they going to get back to me? You know, does he continuously? No, I mean, obviously he's not going to sit there and refresh his emails all the time, but how does he operate so efficiently when he's not the one who's doing the thing? He's kind of just relying on the people around him to give up the answers. And he kind of gave me two answers, and so I'll share the funny one. The funny one first, he said,
Aaron Moncur:back when he started work,
Brad Hirayama:if he needed an answer from somebody, he would have to get up and walk and talk to them. And nobody was really there was no way to get anything instantly. Back when he started, had his first job, and that instilled a sense of kind of patient urgency in in him, where there's an understanding of
Aaron Moncur:not everything is immediate.
Brad Hirayama:So that's, that's kind of the funny answer, you know, he told the story of, you know, there was one time where he, I think, he was working up in the Bay Area, he said, and he had just started a job, and he ended up the department that he was working with, and his desk were in two different buildings, and so in his first job, within the first month, six months, he lost like 10 pounds because he had to walk from his desk to the other building. And he was doing it so many times a day that just naturally, he just lost a bunch of weight. I thought that was, that was, you know, just just hilarious, because now that's great. It's just so easy, right? You just send an email. You're sitting at your desk all day. But really, the the thing that stood stood out to me was this idea of patience coming from him, and I think his his upbringing within the professional world completely is different than my idea of patience, and I consider myself to be a pretty patient person. Ask my wife, I think I'm a pretty patient person, or maybe don't. But when he was talking about patience and how you're able to he's built the trust around him in order for him to ask a question and step back. It just, it struck me that he's it's just a different level, a different understanding of what patience is, you know, and so that's, that's really why I wasn't looking for answers from you. I just wanted to hear kind of, in that, in that gray area that a lot of us operate in, what is it that keeps you going and keeps you sane and and for you, it's, it's kind of the focus, right? You focus on what you're on what you're doing, what you need to do. You focus on exercise, you focus on the extracurriculars when you need to focus there. I think that's I think that's awesome, being able to actually get to the point where you can focus like that, and your mind isn't a million miles an hour in every direction, right?
Aaron Moncur:Just go ahead. I'll share one more, one more thought on that subject. We've all heard people espouse the virtues of having a positive attitude, which is great and an ideal that we should all work towards. For sure, have a positive attitude make. A big difference in life. I came up with a twist on that saying years ago as I was going through my journey of, how do I deal with ambiguity and stress and all of this, and the way I think of it now is have a productive attitude. I think that when you are doing things, when you're taking action, it really does help quiet the the noise going on in your brain. Whether you're you're worried about something, anxious about something, you know, these are signals from your body telling you that there's a problem. This is our alert system alerting you, notifying you that there is a problem. That's what stress is, and now it's up to you to take action, be productive, and try to solve that problem. You won't always be able to solve that problem, but I've found that taking action doing something, even if it doesn't solve the problem right away or ever but doing something really helps calm all that noise, the chaos, the commotion in my own brain.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, and that's and that's a great point. And I think part of what I want to do with kind of this new series and new format where we kind of go back and forth and talk through some of the things that are on our mind is, is to provide these types of frameworks where, you know, in your many wise years, you've come up with your own ways of dealing with or being a part of the solution to whatever these problems are. And so I really like that. And you know, and thank you for sharing. I appreciate you know you being willing to share these, these types of frameworks that you use for yourself and what works for for for you?
Aaron Moncur:Absolutely, I'm super curious to hear from the community of listeners. Yes, that is you, dear listener. About what they all thought of this episode. Was it useful hearing this kind of banter going back and forth? Or are people just like Aaron and Brad? Come on, guys, give us something that's more entertaining. This wasn't even focused on engineering. So super curious to hear from all of you, drop us a note wherever, LinkedIn on the wave, or just shoot us an email at you can use info at Team pipeline.us. That's an easy one, but we'd love to hear your your opinion on all of this. I think I'm I'm out of, I'm I'm out of things to say for this particular episode. This was a fun one. We kind of went a bunch of different directions, and it was fun for me anyway, hopefully fun for you and those listening as well.
Brad Hirayama:Yeah, you know, I, I'm gonna take, I mean, I think there's, you know, we've kind of exhausted everything that we can say here. But I'd really like to make the challenge to everybody that is listening to this, that if you are ever in the position where you are the hiring manager, or you are evaluating a new vendor, or you're in a position of power of choice over somebody else or some other company.
Aaron Moncur:Take the time to
Brad Hirayama:send that email, send that rejection email, take the time to do it the same day that you make the decision, and it's only going to take you a minute, but I think that once you do that, and you prove to yourself that it's possible to be done, that it's not devastating, I think that can be part of the change. So for everybody out there, be part of the change. Make that uncomfortable decision and just do it.
Aaron Moncur:Great message to end on. I love it
Brad Hirayama:all right. Well, thank you everybody. Yeah, please let us know if this is great or you want to hear specific topics. We're also open to that we have a lot of ideas, and Aaron and I love to talk to each other. So why not talk to each other with all of you guys?
Aaron Moncur:Absolutely Yep. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Brad.
Brad Hirayama:All right, thank you.
Aaron Moncur:I'm Aaron Moncur, founder of pipeline design and engineering. If you like what you heard today, please share the episode to learn how your team can leverage our team's expertise developing advanced manufacturing processes, automated machines and custom fixtures, complemented with product design and R and D services. Visit us at Team pipeline.us. To join a vibrant community of engineers online. Visit the wave. Dot, engineer. Thank you for listening. You.
