Being an Engineer
Being an Engineer
S6E35 Spencer Jones | AI for Engineers, Finding Venture Capital, & Accelerating Medtech Development
Spencer Jones began his healthcare career as a registered nurse in Little Rock, Arkansas, where he witnessed firsthand the clinical need that sparked his first device: SafeBreak® Vascular, a patented solution to prevent IV line dislodgement. As a nursing alumnus of the University of Arkansas, Spencer led SafeBreak from idea to FDA approval in 2022, drawing on early mentorship from Innovate Arkansas and a successful accelerator experience with ZeroTo510.
In 2015 he founded Lineus Medical as co‑founder and CTO, securing multiple U.S. and international patents while raising seed and Series A funding. In 2020 he began consulting with Lapovations, the University of Arkansas‑spawned medtech startup behind AbGrab®, a suction‑based tool enabling safer and more consistent abdominal entry in laparoscopy.
Since officially joining Lapovations in October 2022, Spencer has served as CTO, VP of Sales and now CEO, leading efforts like a national sales rollout, Series A financing, SBIR IIB grant, and the Class I FDA launch of AbGrab across 18 states. Beyond product development, he’s an active mentor and ecosystem builder through XO Medtech, ComboSpine, and educational partnerships.
Spencer is passionate about democratizing clinical innovation—especially for nurses, physicians, and students—and now leverages AI tools to accelerate medtech startup growth. Recognized by Nurse.org as “Nurse Innovator of the Year,” he is a powerhouse blending clinical insight, technical execution, fundraising prowess, and ecosystem leadership.
LINKS:
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencer-jones-5a008672/
Guest website: https://xomedtech.com/
Aaron Moncur, host
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About Being An Engineer
The Being An Engineer podcast is a repository for industry knowledge and a tool through which engineers learn about and connect with relevant companies, technologies, people resources, and opportunities. We feature successful mechanical engineers and interview engineers who are passionate about their work and who made a great impact on the engineering community.
The Being An Engineer podcast is brought to you by Pipeline Design & Engineering. Pipeline partners with medical & other device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, automation equipment, assembly jigs, inspection stations and more. You can find us on the web at www.teampipeline.us
Ben, hello and welcome to the being an engineer podcast today, we're talking with Spencer Jones, an RN turned serial med tech entrepreneur who's built multiple successful medical device companies from the ground up. He's the inventor of over 10 patents. Took novel devices like safe break vascular at a class two de novo laparoscopic tool from concept to FDA clearance, and has raised over $10 million dollars in VC and angel funding based in Fayetteville, Arkansas. He's the CEO of lapivations, makers of the FDA registered AB grab, founder of EXO medtech operations, lead at combo spine, and a mentor to hundreds of early stage founders working to fix the opaque, inefficient medtech ecosystem. Spencer, thanks so much for being on the show with us today.
Spencer Jones:Aaron, thank you for having me super, super excited to get on with you. I know we're going to have a good
Aaron Moncur:time Absolutely. So I was on Spencer's podcast a little while back, and we kind of just hit it off. I think we talked for over 90 minutes, and it just went by so quickly, where I feel like we're kindred spirits and we have a good time. So hopefully all of you listening to this will also enjoy the conversation. Now, Spencer, you are are not an engineer, but the being an engineer podcast is for engineers and engineering adjacent roles, and you definitely qualify as the latter, having led so many medical device startups and teams. But let's go back to before you were doing that. You were an RN, a nurse. Tell us about the transition into med tech entrepreneurship.
Spencer Jones:Yeah. No, it the transition happened, I would say, over, like, a year and a half. I'd say, I, you know, like most clinician inventor, saw a problem, wanted to develop a solution. But I think, like, really, the linchpin was these accelerator programs. I was able to do one in Little Rock, one in Memphis, and the one in Memphis was medical device specific, and I got it was like, you know, 20k and then 150k cause I won the first accelerator. It was a competition. Then there was another 50k of investment in the second one in that, like, kind of that, that last part where I got the 150k and the 50k like, that happened over like, a seven month period, six month period. So it was that point that I knew, like, Hey, this is what I want to I really think I've got a shot to do this, and I want to try to do this. And then after that second accelerator ended, I was like, this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And so, yeah, I always tell people, like, if you're trying to decide if you should make the jump or whatever, then don't, like, it will become painfully, obviously, when you should quit your full time job, you know. And I was not in a financial position to just like, up and quit anyway. So yeah, that transition was, you know, thanks to a lot of good mentors and accelerator programming and kind of that dirt money, seed money capital to get me and get me rolling.
Aaron Moncur:What were some of the things that you enjoyed so much once you got into entrepreneurship, that you were missing as an RN,
Spencer Jones:you know, honestly, I, you know, I don't even know that it was anything that I was missing as an RN, frankly, like it was, there were things that I liked, I think that were similar in the sense that it was, like, you know, very problem solving oriented. Like, you know, you've got this business, you've got these set of challenges, you know, you need to raise capital, you need to develop a product. Do you need to, you know, do all these things. And so it was just kind of the problem solver mentality that I think I liked about it. And then I think too, you know, when you're a nurse, like, I worked med surg, so like, it wasn't like, this big team, like, you know, you could say, like, in an or you're really hand in glove, there's anesthesia, there's the physicians, etc, surgeons. But like, you're kind of a, you got to be a self starter. You're kind of, like, you get your five patients, or whatever, four or five patients, and you're just like, all right, where's the priority? How am I solving this problem? You got to think, you know, clinically. But I think so. I think that kind of, like, self starter driven, motivated, is something that I had, something that helped me as a nurse, but then something that, like, translated well, really well to entrepreneurship. But like, I didn't have, like, an itch that I was trying to scratch or something that was missing. It was just kind of like, Hey, I guess this is, you know, I want to solve this problem. And then obviously I thought there was, like, you know, more earning potential than I had as a nurse at the time. And I thought I was going to do anesthesia, which would have had good earning potential and probably would have made more over the past 10 years if I would have done that, knowing what, what's happening with nurses and anesthesia salaries. But, yeah, it was honestly more just the I kind of got bit by the bug, and then, like, got really passionate about it, versus I was, like, seeking it out, you know, entrepreneurship,
Aaron Moncur:yeah, tell us a little bit about safe break. As as Rumor has it, you spent the night ideating and came up with an idea, and then 2022 you got FDA. Clearance. What tell us about that, that journey,
Spencer Jones:yeah, so I'd actually had kind of already patented done, you know, that very first accelerator with, like a separate device. It was still vascular access. It was, you know, very similar in almost, you know, they were almost connected, in a sense, if you think, IV pumped a patient. But I was, I was, like, it was, I worked the night shift, and kind of had kept experiencing this problem of, like, patients losing their IVs, etc. So I started doing, like, prior art research, like, literally, I think it was at work, like, like, at 3am doing, you know, looking at Google patents, and I found this guy who had had the patent, or patented this basically exact concept, like, the design wasn't good. It used springs and some things that, like, you just wouldn't use a medical device. But the concept was, like, purely what I was thinking in my mind, and like, there were elements of that design that I would that I was like, Well, if I was gonna go forward with this venture, it would 100% be, you know, prudent to own this patent. So I re, I kind of found the guy reached out to him. It's like, Hey, are you doing anything with this patent? It was another nurse. And he was like, No, I'm, you know, I was like, Are you open to selling it, or license again or something? He's like, Yeah, I'd be interested in selling it. So basically took part of that 150k for the first accelerator, purchased his patent immediately, like, redesigned it, filed additional IP, and then you basically applied to the accelerator at that point, which I think is like, a, you know, for people out there that it's like, you know, just because someone's had the idea, like, you could have a license, you could have a co development agreement, you could just buy the patent from them outright. Or I could have, I think I probably would have been fine to say, I'm just going to design a different way to do this, because what we ended up with didn't really use too much or any, I don't even think of the existing prior, but, yeah, that's, that's kind of how the genesis of it, but it was just a really annoying problem, like patients losing their IVs. It's kind of like their critical lifeline. So when they're losing that you're their nurse, it's like, it's like paralyzing to a degree, especially if they're, they've which most patients are. It seems like, these days, like difficult sticks, you know, difficult facts, go access for whatever reason, peripherality disease, your peripheral vascular disease or diabetic, or you name it.
Aaron Moncur:Tell us a little bit more about the accelerators, because I bet a lot of people listening to this have ideas of their own. They probably got the entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial bug as well, and would love to jump off and start something, try out their own business. How did you find the accelerators like? What was the process of of getting in any pro tips you can think of, or even opposite things to watch out for?
Spencer Jones:Yeah, absolutely, a lot in that question. I'll try to be judicious, judicious with the answer. But they are, in short, they come in a couple different shapes and sizes. But like these accelerator programs are, you know, eight weeks to 13 weeks. You know, some of them, I think, are even longer than that, but typically they're about 13 weeks. More and more of them are virtual. I think that's a, that's a post covid thing. It existed before covid, but it's definitely a post covid thing. More and more, and they'll even when they're virtual, sometimes they'll have in person events. But the ones that I did, especially the one in Memphis, was like, you know, butts in seats, like eight to five, you were either getting mentor programming. They bring in somebody to look to talk to you about IP or regulatory or quality or commercialization, go to market, all that stuff. And then there was basically like, hey, we expect you by Friday or by the beginning of next week or whatever, to have X, Y and Z things done. And it could have been a business plan. It could have been, you know, some of them are early, so that's like lean canvas or whatever. Typically, though they want you to be a little bit farther down the road. And a lot of accelerators are kind of getting a little bit more, you know, into that, like seed to series A stage versus like, idea and concept. But it's just really, really amazing. I mean, for me, as a nurse who was never, I'd say, classically educated on, formally educated on, you know, business finance, accounting, and then any of like the very specific to medical device quality management systems and regulatory pathways and intellectual property and all that stuff like, it was just an amazing way to cut my teeth. Learn on the fly, learn from people have mentors to bounce, bounce things off of, to access those networks at those accelerator programs. So I would say, especially for, you know, if you're kind of like a younger, you know, innovator or whatever, and you can, like, afford to, like, pick up your life and move somewhere for three months, because I know that's not like something that everybody has the ability to do, which is kind of part of the thesis for EXO medtech, but, but I highly, highly recommend it. And even if you are a little bit more like kind of locked into your current, you know, you know, geography, whatever, you can't uproot and move. Maybe have a wife, kids, etc, or a husband and kids, etc. I would say you should still look into it. You can do a virtual they do a lot of the it's kind of hard to do one when you have a full time job, but there are some out there that are good for that. But I would say the So, so highly recommend it. It's a great way to get I call it the dirt money. So it's like, even priority or seed money. You know what? I mean? It's like, Hey, let me validate this. Let me, let me figure out. You know, surely, hopefully, you know, if it's a problem we're solving or not, you've done that groundwork. But like, Can I turn this into a viable solution? Is this a viable venture? I. And all those things finding them. I would say there's things like gust, G, U, S, T, F, 6s, is another website you can find them on. And there's a couple lists. I think I saw a website pop up the other day that was like, you know, accelerators and incubators. And it was like, this really in depth, like data portal, if you will, and kind of like directory. And I think it was paid, which I was like, what you're paying, making people pay for this, but whatever, and, but it was just like a list of all the accelerators and incubators. So there's a couple ways you can find them. Honestly, I would like perplexity or chat GBT, if you were just said, like, Hey, I'm looking for an accelerator along these lines, it could help you find it. But then the things to watch out for, you know, some of them take equity, which I'm not against, but I would just the thing that I think some accelerators get wrong, some of them, like, they're letting the tail wag the dog a little bit, and like, there'd be a VC group or somebody that's backing it, and like, they have, you know, rather onerous requirements and terms around, you know, a 20k investment or a 50k investment. And I'm like, you know, I've seen some that are like, like a convertible, like, it's like 20k or 50k or whatever, but it's like a convertible preferred so it's like accruing interest, but it's also preferred stock, and it's, you know, and it's, it's like, if you take 10 years to get them their money back, that 8% note, basically, is accruing A lot of interest. So like, yeah, they may that. You may be paying them back two and a half x before you could ever see a dime. You know what I mean. So I think, just like the terms around it, or you got to be really, really careful. And if, if there's an accelerator that's like, No, you have to, you have to do redo your bylaws or articles, incorporation, or whatever, to be exactly how we want it, and it strips your rights. As a founder, I would just just move on to the next one. It's not worth it. So I would just say, be really cautious about that, and don't think, Oh, I'm going to trust them, and I'm just going to go and we'll do the documents with their attorneys. And it's like, no, don't do that. And like, you can push back on things, and if they want you bad enough, you'll be there. And if they you know, if you just say, a covered attorney, look out for all that stuff, because it can be like, difficult to, like, get out of later, or it'll put you in a really bad situation where you could, very easily, you know, you know, lose control of your company, be ousted, so on and so forth.
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Aaron Moncur:That's great advice that, especially that you can push back on these groups, because for a brand new entrepreneur, they might not feel like they can. So to have permission like that from someone who's been there, done that, I think is, is really important to hear speaking of VCs. So you've had your your fair share of experience working with VCs. What's the process like getting money from from VCs? I guess, similar to the last question, any pro tips you can share or things to watch out for?
Spencer Jones:What's the experience like, you know, crawling over glass? No, I mean, that good. Not all VCs are the same. You know, it's, just such a, it's a really, it's a grindy process. It's just a ton of submitting applications, and a lot of them are very like, you know, they're asking the same question and slightly different ways, with slightly different character limits. So it's just, it's just, really, is a numbers game, though. I mean, they, if you think about it, like they, you know, your average fund, 50 or $100 million fund, they're writing, you know, maybe a million to $4 million check sizes, like they're and that's on the smaller side, right? You know, they're gonna see hundreds of deals a year, and they may only have make six investments a year. So if you do the math on that, it's like, okay, you've got to be, you know, sick. You know, one of the six out of 300 so it's just a numbers game. And like, you got to think, like, you know, you're only gonna, you know, get meetings with a percent, and then you're only gonna, like, get a percent of that percent to get to an actual term sheet. So, so I think it's easy. It's easy for people to get discouraged when they're pitching to VCs. And trying to find VCs and doing outreach and stuff like that. But I would just say, you know, try to use all the tools at your disposal to to, you know, create a well thought out investor list. I would say, try to do as much networking as you can with them six months prior to you even kicking off your fundraising round. Build those relationships. Then you can kind of treat your fundraising round like a product launch. You know, you're giving them first, almost like beta access, right? Hey, you know, we're launching a fundraising round in a month, or maybe you just plan some meetings in person, and you know, if there's a couple firms in Dallas or Boston or Chicago, right? But there's no silver bullet. I mean, it's gotten so much tougher to raise funds. I mean, you know, there's companies that you know, I see and have worked with where it's like, if we were raising funds in, you know, 2018 this would have been a breeze, and it's just a real grind now. And there's a million reasons, you know, AI has taken up a lot, you know, sucking a lot of the auction out of the room. A lot of funds have shifted to later stage. So they want to write fewer checks that are higher conviction and larger check sizes, so they're less active overall, versus, like, a diversified, you know, approach, where they're making a lot of smaller bets. But yeah, it's, it's also, you know, with the two and 20 model, they're getting a 2% management fee, you know, you know. And so they want, they want a bigger management fee, because they want to have more staff, and they want to, right? So that kind of incentivizes them to raise larger funds. So, you know the number, you know, I feel like you see less and less, you know, 25 or $50 million funds. And they're all 100 150 you know, plus million dollar funds. And if you've got a fund that big, like writing 250k checks is, you know, you're gonna write 50 of 60 of those. You know what? I mean, it's a lot of work, right? So anyways, it's a grind. I don't have a silver bullet. I'd say final point here, like, the process of prepping for them. I think you really need to have, you know, your ducks in a row. Have a bunch of people get eyes on it. Try to, like, do your research and really understand, like, what does a comprehensive data room look like? You know, how do you need to talk about your IP portfolio? How do you need to do have your financial modeling? Have you know? Is it sophisticated? Are your assumptions? Do they pass the smell test? Have you done enough work to communicate the amount of customer discovery that you've done and that you've validated? This is a core problem we're solving. It's like a hot pain point for stakeholders. Have you validated? People are willing to pay for it, right? Do you have a really airtight slide deck. Do you have an eight minute version, a 12 minute version, a non confidential teaser version, a full 1520 minute version, you know, full business plan? Like, do you have, you know, IP assignments handled for all the people that could be inventors? Like, it's just a laundry list of stuff to get a really sophisticated data room together. But, like, it really, really really helps. And then it comes through, even when you're communicating in like, a eight minute pitch, they can tell, you know, if you have all that stuff pulled together, but, yeah, there's no silver bullet. It's just a grind. You just, you know. And that's kind of, you know, one of my things, that is my least favorite thing about med tech is that you're so dependent on VC, like, you can't really do it without it, you know what I mean. But I think family offices, you know, which is, like, you know, you got, like, Heinz ketchup, you know what I mean, or good year, a lot of these big kind of, you know, second, third generation, you know, families that have ties in all these big organizations and stuff like that. Like, they will have family offices. And typically they have a little bit more, you know, flexibility, agility, they'll do more stuff that's like, almost more mission or, you know, focused, like, they may have been touched by cardiac disease, some cardiac disease, or diabetes, or, you know, they may have somebody in a family with autism or that has multiple sclerosis or whatever, right? And so they can have a preference for, like, look, we're going to invest in these more because it's because of the social and the mission behind it, versus like, I think this is going to be a 20 bagger in five years. You know what I mean. So if you can find those, especially like, I think family offices are kind of filling the gap where VCs have been moving later stage, as well as angels have been moving a bit later stage. So I think those family offices are something you should look for if you're contemplating a fundraise and thinking you're going to have to go VC
Aaron Moncur:one more question about the VCs, and then we'll move on. How do you find these VCs? I mean, is it as simple as just googling? Help me find VCs in the United States, or chat GPT or like specific, I don't know directories where you can go.
Spencer Jones:I'm sure there are directories, you know, and like that. I would say just, like, very intentionally for that thing directories, but I could see them being a bit saturated. There's some paid stuff that you can do, like CrunchBase or pitch book. Pitch book can be both of those can be rather expensive, but if you can find somebody that's got a crunch base or pitch book that will help, like, create a list for you. That's great. I would say it's, it's kind of all of the above, right? Like, you need to be googling. You need to be asking chat, GBT and perplexity. Like, I think perplexity, deep research is a great way to, like, get you, like, a good smattering of potential targets based on some key criteria. You know, we, for other reasons, at XO, have access to. Like, it's called EXO websites, and it's like an LLM powered web search. And you can get very specific with the criteria you know, you know, VC, in the US that writes checks between, you know, 500k and 2 million that, you know, invests, it has, it's this stated in their thesis, and has invested in companies in this industry, right? And then you can do enrichment on those sometimes to get contacts, but at a minimum, we'll get it'll give you a good list. So I would say anything at your disposal to try to get in touch with investors is something you should be using now. I also think this, the capital supply demand ratio has been like out of whack, like, it's for every$2 people are trying to raise, there's only $1 getting invested. And I don't know if it's held to that, but I think it was, like one point. It was two at one point, maybe 1.7 now, but it's kind of different across each stage and sector. But all that to say, I think warm intros are always best. So like, keep that in mind. You know, obviously you can't burn all your contacts and just say, hey. Like, like, they have to know you, they have to have a reason to do it. But warm intros are always going to get you so much farther than not, like, it's, you know, the hit rate on warm intro to initial pitch is very, very high compared to, like, a cold outreach strategy. And you can, you can engineer those warm intros, right? Like you find, if you find a VC fund, right? You look at the people that work for the fund, you realize you have a mutual, a bunch of mutual connections with one of them. You pick your, you know, kind of warmest mutual connection, have a call with them, or DM them, say, hey, how do you know this person? Like, I'm thinking about asking, you know, pitching to them. And was just curious if you, you know, could make an intro or whatever. So, like, you can kind of engineer these things to happen a bit too. But yeah, I think that's on the warm intro piece. It's like, it's another reason why, you know, don't be afraid to just, like, give people value for free. Because you know, when you come back to that person and say, Hey, like, I could really use a warm intro here, if you've done something for them or added value into their life or venture in some way, they're going to be so much more likely to than if you are only coming to them with asks and needs. You know what I mean?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah. All right, let's, let's switch gears a little bit to EXO med tech. Tell us a little bit about what EXO medtech is and why you created it.
Spencer Jones:Yeah. So EXO medtech is a training platform and community focused on med tech innovation. Who is it for? It's for founders, co founders, engineers, whether it's biomedical, mechanical, you know, biomedical engineers, there's a lot of those in there that we have, product designers, quality regulatory people, service providers, cdmos, mentors, advisors, like anyone really in and around, either in a med tech company, or in and around med tech companies in some way. And launched last year, trying to think we're up to maybe, like 220, something members now, but the, you know, training platform and community may sound like, Wait, what is that? But you know me and my co founder, we basically set out to the right amount the right topics, in terms of, like, you know, all the different things you need to know when you're doing Med, tech innovation, put them in the right order. Go from a content and educational perspective, an appropriate depth on each topic. So that you can go through this, you know, we call it the playbook, right go through the playbook with, you know, their Videos, downloads, templates, infographics, tools, punch lists. You know all of this stuff, right? And once you go through the playbook, cradle to grave, whether you're a complete newbie or whether you've been in it for 1015, years, you're going to learn a ton. You're going to gain a lot of valuable perspective. You're going to see areas where we've failed, or seen people fail, and tried to try to kind of help you avoid that. And the whole goal is to kind of save people an immense amount of time and money that they would have spent maybe going down the wrong path or not knowing certain things. And so that's kind of the training side. But then the other thing we were trying to solve for is kind of the sense of community and the network in med tech, like if you're not doing if you're doing if you're doing med tech and you're not in a hub, it's just very difficult, you know, like, if you're in Boston, you can find someone that's doing med tech and go buy them coffee, right? You can go meet them outside their work. But if you're not in a place that's a hub for med device and med tech, it's just very difficult to connect with those people. Network, you know, find people interested in what you're interested in, accountability groups, peers, mentors, service providers. So we kind of wrap, put this course up and wrapped a community around it. It's hosted on a platform called circle, which is mighty network school. There's a couple of these kind of community hosting platforms, but it's honestly been, it's been a labor of love. It's been amazing, like there's, you know, once you're in XO, as soon as you log in, you see this kind of primary feed. And, I mean, you're in there, you've seen it, Aaron, it's, it's like, what we say is, it's value in relationships first. So people are posting, and it's, you know, similar to a private discord, if you will. Like, sometimes there's, like, these big slacks, but it's, it's, Hey, here's a resource, here's a nugget of wisdom. Here's something that we've been working on and we're struggling with. You know, hey, I need this connection. Can anyone help? So it's just this exchange of value. You're either asking for some help and some value, or you're giving value and you're building relationships. And you know, you can DM people. You can search, you know, any. You can search the whole thing, and any, any time it's mentioned in anyone's bio, you'll see their member, their profile pop up, and you can DM them. So, it's been really cool, but it's, it's been a it's been growing great, and we're continuing to kind of develop and launch tools, you know, kind of micro SaaS tools or free tools, or different things like that, and do workshops, some AI workshops, you know, we do office hours. So it's been really cool. It's kind of this, like, you know, almost virtual third space, if you will, where you can kind of connect with, you know, people that are doing what you're doing, and interested in what you're doing and in the med tech space, and kind of grow together. What we say, you know, grow or what's that? That saying, it's like, if you want to go farther, go together, or something like that. That's kind of the thesis. It's like, Let's build and grow together in here. And it's been a great it's been a it's been an awesome time so far.
Aaron Moncur:That's terrific. Like you mentioned, I'm in there as well. I'm in the Exo med tech community, and this is not a sponsored episode, and I've been paid anything to say this, but it really is a great resource. If you are an engineer or someone who is in the med tech space is developing a medical device, then highly recommended to go check that out as just a wonderful resource. You have so many videos in there. You do webinars and things, and they're recorded and just lots of very practical, actionable knowledge all in in one convenient location. So super beneficial for folks who are trying to develop medical devices or products in the med tech space. One of the things I wanted to hit on was the the AI that you use. So I'm, I'm so impressed with how good Spencer is using AI to build things. And he's told me in the past, oh, it's easy. You could do it. I think he's, he's being humble. It's, I mean, it doesn't seem as straightforward to me as you make it out to be, but you make it look so easy, and it seems like anytime a new AI tool comes out, you just know about it right away. You probably have some kind of AI notification that's set up, but like you're the man when it comes to these AI tools, tell us about a few of your favorite AI tools and how you've been able to use them, the impact that they've had, and how you think engineers might be able to leverage some of these tools. The Product Development expo or PDX is your chance to learn from subject matter experts, providing practical hands on training for dozens of different engineering topics, Gd and T advanced surface modeling, DFM, plating and finishing techniques, programming robots, adhesive, dispensing, prototyping, tips and tricks and lots More. PDX happens October, 21 and 22nd in Phoenix, Arizona. Learn more at PD Expo. Dot engineer, that's p, d, e, x, p, O. Dot engineer,
Spencer Jones:yeah, it's honestly, it's like it I feel like it's like a revolving door of, like, my daily driver tools are kind of changing, you know, week to week, really, month to month. But, yeah, so, I mean, honestly, my my daily drivers, I would say, like, chat GPT and Claude. When people are like, should you really pay for both? I think you should, because once you really get into it and understand, you know, like, chat GBT, they have their four Oh model, and then there's the oh three model. That's a reasoning model. And, you know, four Oh is an image Gen model. And then even with, like, Claude, they've got the Opus and the sonnet. And, you know, use Opus for planning, use use on it for execution, on things and but like, once you get into it, you really understand, like, the different models, what they're good at, their strengths and weaknesses. Like, you'll you can really leverage them in a pretty, pretty amazing way, especially the projects within those like those are one of the things I use the most, is these projects where you can upload documents, all kinds of different files, create a large context window, and then every time you have a chat within that project, it's calling on that massive context window. And that's great. Kind of call back to the fundraising stuff you can upload, basically your data room right into a cloud project. And then whenever you have this new VC application that's 30 questions long, and you've kind of answered it before, but not in this exact way. You can just put that in there and say, like, based on these questions and these character requirements, like, you know, fill this out. And of course, you got to edit everything, almost always with AI, edit everything, but that's a great, you know, kind of cheat code that saved me countless, countless hours, right from having to just manually go through and try to craft these within the character limit requirements, all that stuff. Dia browser. Dia Browser is a new one. It's, it's called, it's from the browser company. They used to have a really popular browser called arc, which I think they. Have, but it's basically, it's replaced Google Chrome for me, pretty much. And it's an LLM native, native browser. So one of the cool things you can do any page you're on, you can just pop out a window and then you're chatting with an LLM about what's on the page. You can attach other tabs and then chat, ask it a question, and it's calling on those different tabs. You have custom skills shortcuts where it's basically you can highlight some text, or you can have it do it on the whole page, and you just hit slash, whatever your command for that shortcut is, and it'll run basically a full prompt for you. But diabrows has been great. I've been using that a lot. Gum loop is a workflow automation type tool where you can any type of tool or platform, whether it's Google Sheets or notion or different CRMs or anything like any tool you can think of, any platform that you use, there's probably a node for that, including any AI model you want to call on and do anything with. So, you know, imagine, you know, you're connecting an air table. When a field's created here, it pushes it through, and it fills out this PDF, and then it web scrapes this, and it does all this, and then it sent the it synthesize it here, and then writes it to a Google sheet, or writes it to an air table, or creates a document, and, you know, a Google, Google Doc, and saves it in your drive, or whatever. And so that, that one's a great one. Me, I think meeting minutes and meeting transcripts are like a big unlock, if you can, like, figure out a good process for weaponizing those. There's a lot of meeting note takers out there, you know, I think Fathom is a good one. They've got a web hook capability that, if you're, like, really technically advanced, and you can leverage that like it allows you to, you know, you can have every time a meeting's done, it can push it to a workflow automation tool like gum, gum loop, or innate in or something like that. So, so it can automatically push it and then do whatever you want to do within that flow, categorize it, analyze it, you know, Do this, do that, and then save it somewhere. Let's see, I use one called shadow.do and it's an agent, agentless, you know, meeting transcriber, so it doesn't pop up as an agent on your meeting, which is cool. And there's some custom skills and things you can do with that one too. But on the engineering side, and this is like a way, I think one thing I really like that, I think engineers, I'll say two that I think engineers could, could, could benefit from. There's one called, you know, mermaid mermaid diagram, or mermaid charts or whatever. And you can, you know, it can basically build work like, what am I trying to say? Gantt charts. And then the, kind of like, you know, the box, stick box, those types of diagrams, flow diagrams. It can build those types of things just using, like, JSON code. So it's, you know, looks kind of like, looks kind of like computer programming or whatever, if you're not technical, but what you can do is, you know, I've done this before, and it's like, it's stunning, because if you've ever had to build Gantt charts, it takes forever, but, like, you take a meeting transcript, right? And then you push it into chat GBT, and you grab the link for the, you know, Gantt Chart syntax diagramming rules from mermaid chart, and you drop that in and, say, extract the key things out of this, and then with these timeline parameters, whatever, create me the JSON script that I need to create this Gantt chart. It knocks it out, you copy paste it over, and then you've got a mermaid, mermaid Gantt chart that looks incredible, that you can edit from there if you want to, right? But it's like it, I mean, takes building a Gantt chart from like, hours and refining it to, you know, 20 minutes maybe. So that's a cool one that I've used in the last thing, I'll say, I could talk about this for till the end of time. But Robo flow is one that I think is, I'm, like, not a master at that by any stretch at all, but it's basically a almost. It looks similar from like, a workflow automation standpoint, in terms of the nodes and connecting nodes, but it's for computer vision. So if you want to do object detection, instant segmentation, you can build out flows in roboflow, and you can even leverage some publicly available models that they have in kind of their suite or database. And you can also train models in it. You can do image annotation for a data set that you have, and have it help train models that way. So all of those, I mean, it's literally, though, Aaron, every I feel like, every other day, there's something new and incredible. If you want to build low code stuff for sales, B zero or bolt or replit, those are all really, really good. You know, you can spin up web apps and, you know, minutes, hours, maybe. So I just say it's, but again, like, I think, you know, I think people should be viewing, you know, leveraging AI as a core competency, and not thinking about as, like, oh, I use chat GBT and like, that's me using AI. It's like, you really have to look at all the different AI tools and have an open mind and be able to pick something up quick, because the rate of change is so fast and how fast things are evolving that, like, if you're just kind of stuck using one tool and only one tool, like you're really you're really missing a lot of value. In my mind,
Aaron Moncur:I'm really excited for, like, I don't know, two to five years from now, when some of these tools have really matured, the dust has settled a little bit. I'm sure there will continue. To be an explosion of AI, but hopefully over the next few years, a few winners have started to emerge, and it becomes easier to Okay, I need to do this thing. I use this tool, this AI tool for it, yeah, because, like you said, things are changing so fast right now, maybe that's a good question for you. The tools that you just listed are all great, and I hope people will check them out and consider using them. It's possible that three months from now there will be better versions of those tools. So from a kind of like fundamental standpoint, how do you stay abreast of the Yeah, the latest and greatest in AI,
Spencer Jones:it's, I mean, honestly, like, one of my, one of my, like my co founder at XO, he is, like, in that world. And so I honestly, like, through osmosis, just like, end up seeing and hearing about these things. But honestly, like, I would say, there's a handful of people that, if you just get on Twitter, x or whatever, and follow them. Like, you know, basically follow enough of them to get your algorithm kind of pumping in that direction. You'll end up seeing a lot of them, right? And new product launches as they come, and so on and so forth. So, like, honestly, I think Twitter is where a lot of this really kind of pops off. And like, you'll see product launches. You'll see people demoing tools. You'll see people like, showing what they built with tools. That's a really good one. YouTube's good as well for, like, I guess, diving deeper on some of those. But obviously, if you watch certain channels, like Greg Eisenberg, his channel, he's, like, always got, you know, kind of new and upcoming tools. You know, companies with their tools, etc. But I would say that's, that's honestly, and there's some newsletters out there, right, that you can just like, get on the newsletter and it'll, you know, there'll be new tools. I'm sure there's no shortage of newsletters out there. I mean, I think I follow one or two, but no shortage of newsletters out there that are announcing new tools, new AI, stuff like Y Combinator. I'm sure they've got a, you know, the stuff coming through there is always, like, pretty mind numbing and cool. So you can always, like, pick up the companies that are coming through their cohorts, and then see what they're working on. Nice,
Aaron Moncur:all right, we're going to shift gears again, away from AI and go back to your experience mentoring med tech startups. So you've, you've mentored lots of med tech startups. What? What are a few areas where you commonly see med tech startups tripping over themselves, making mistakes, falling over the one unforced errors.
Spencer Jones:Yeah, yeah. I would say, you know, I'll say, for the early stage first, it's like thinking that Well, for one thinking that like they're just going to file a patent and someone's going to license their stuff. License their stuff or acquire them. Like, it just takes so much more these days, and so, like, the people that are like, Oh yeah, I'm thinking of filing a patent, and also want to get ready for licensing. I'm like, No, you stop. Like you're, you're, you know, years away from that. But I would say the big one is like, not not not appreciating and investing enough into, like, customer discovery, but also kind of doing what they can do for free on the front end to validate the problem they're solving. The Economics of launching that product, you know, you know could because, like, people think like, oh, well, I need to be, I need to be doing pro I had this idea. I need to start prototyping it. It's like, no, there you need to be, you know, rigorously investigating existing options, kind of the clinical care pathways around it, the reimbursement around it, the regulatory pathways around it, the IP that exists out there that you can find on Google patents, they're just literally are months worth of free stuff that you can do interviewing, you know, 5050, end users, and then 50 stakeholders that it influences, and then 50 payers for that thing, who's actually writing the checks or who's actually driving that like, I just feel like people don't do enough of that. I know at NSF I Corps, it's like, basically all they focus on when you go through the NSF I Corps program, and it's for a reason, because it's like, could not be more important. And everybody's experience is valuable, but everybody's experience, you know, by their personal experience by definition, is anecdotal. So people will be like, Oh, I think this is good. And I think people just really do themselves a disservice by not like, like, trying to dig into, like, what they can do on their own with customer discovery and and other things, you know, before they go out and prototype a bunch of stuff, or before, you know, they spend a bunch of money, I would say, for, you know, those but also, like, a little bit later stage too, you know, still in that, like seed stage, or maybe even series A I think there's this, like, you Know, urge to do it in the biggest way possible, or, like, raise a bunch of money and like, I think, and I'm thinking for hardware stuff specifically, I think if people, once they've done the customer discovery, once they validate the problem, all of those things, like, if they kind of sprinted more to, like, a MVP. We, you know, have, like, an MVP type approach, you know, really building the sub assemblies that they need to diversify risk amongst their product development process and and, like, not think about, oh, well, we got to do this clinical trial, and we got to submit to the FDA, and then we got to, it's like, you know, you need to build a product that works first, and you need to do that as efficiently as possible. And it can be ugly, but you just need to prove that it works. You know what I mean? You can always refine the esthetics of it later. And you don't have to make the prototype one that you make your first payment to some body helping. But right? You don't have to build the whole thing, right? You can build the most, you know, technically risky part and validate that, and then the other sub assembly that's technically risky, you can kind of validate that, and then you validate the union of those, and then you can put the other easy stuff around it. But I think sometimes, and this is just my personal philosophy, that people try to say, Oh, well, I need to make this whole thing that has a through z features, and that's not really what's required. It's not, you know, it's not going to be the best use of their capital, and it's not going to get them to a value inflection point that I think will move the needle with whether it's investors or, you know, potential people to, you know, get excited about it, KOLs and, you know, other strategic partners, accelerators, that kind of thing. Yeah, I don't know if you tell me, I'm curious what your thoughts are on that, like people in that product development phase, the things that they do right, like the common mistakes that you see with them getting wrong.
Aaron Moncur:Well, I was going to make a joke about, if you're working with pipeline, then you should build the whole thing all at once and pay a lot of money up front for it, but I thought it would be in bad taste, so I'll skip that. No, I feel the same way. You know, spend as little money as you can developing just the core functionality of it, right? Like prove the highest risk core functionality you don't need, thing, something that looks beautiful to begin with, just that prove that it works. And to your earlier point about, about the research, I, I strongly agree with all of that I have jumped into internal product development projects so products that that we think internally a pipeline would be useful for the market to have, right? And we've, we've developed a few, and they've been abysmal failures, and we developed them based on the notion that we want this. This is useful for us, therefore everyone else out there will also want it. And you know, either we haven't been able to yell loudly enough and get the attention to the people who do want those things, or we were just wrong, and it's probably the latter. So spending the time to do the research, which is hard, right because doing research is boring, it's sucky. People don't like doing that, but building a prototype, Oh, that's fun. That's sexy, right? Yeah, let me add it. I want to do that right away. So you really do have to restrain yourself and be disciplined enough to do the boring but critical tasks first, and that really starts with the research, figuring out if anyone out there is actually willing to pay money for this thing.
Spencer Jones:Yeah, yeah, 100% and just to maybe talk one more on for the next, next question or topic. But like, there are so many state incentives and, you know, grant organizations, or maybe there's an angle where it's like, you have a pediatric device, there's pediatric device consortiums, you know, there's tax credits you can get. There's like, there's entrepreneurial support organizations that may have programs that you can participate in for free, right? And a lot of these things are state and local, and so, like, I always say, like, are you? Do you? Do you? You know, the thing that impresses me is when they're like, hey, yeah, I'm plugged in with, I call them esos, entrepreneurial support organizations. I'm plugged in with this eso, and this eso. And I've applied to this program, and I already have been talking with the state, and I'm applying for this, and we've looked at the NSF and NIH, you know, SBIR, all these grants, and we think that there's one here. But we need to get this point like when someone, I meet with someone, and they they're telling me those things, I'm like, This person gets it right, because there are so many resources out there, and if you just don't look, you're not going to be able to take advantage of them. And then investors see that as basically de risking their investment and making their dollars go further. If you have matching funds that you've already careered, say, hey, if I raise a million dollars, they'll match up to a 500k you know what I mean, that kind of stuff. And tax credits, you know, every dollar invested, the investor gets back 25 cents. Like, if you're not taking advantage of those things and they're available to you, like, the invest in, the investor asks about it, and you're like, oh, no, I hadn't thought of that. They're gonna be like, Nope, I don't like this. Like, they're not, you know what I mean. So anyways, yeah, that's, that's another kind of resource, you know, opportunity that I think not enough people do a good enough job at.
Aaron Moncur:That's great. All right, one more question, and then we'll wrap things up here. What is something that you have seen the most successful med tech companies do to accelerate the. Speed with which they develop engineer their product?
Spencer Jones:Yeah, oh, it's good question. Hmm, let me think about that for a second.
Aaron Moncur:Take your time.
Spencer Jones:You know the one of the things that sticks out is, and I'll steal this a little bit from like, Jeremy Ridley. He's like, a mechanical engineer. He's over at, like, Delve, but like, when you have, like, a glue guy on the project development team that, you know, can interface and translate between, you know, the clinical KOLs and the people they're doing customer discovery with, and like, truly understanding the user needs from like, an end application perspective, and being able to speak the language and communicate that into, you know, a radiused edge here, or, you know, a more ergonomic this, or, you know, the design of buttons or interfaces, or the types of things it needs to have, or the Flex, you know, what this, what the durometer needs to be for a certain shaft, for workability. And when you have someone that can, like, really translate that it, it really, really helps, because you can, kind of, instead of having to make it and then show it to them, and then they get some feedback, and then you're kind of playing telephone whenever you have someone that can be like, almost like a, you know, a glue translator, multidisciplinary, in some sense, like I've those are when projects go much, much faster, and you can cut down a lot of time, you can avoid some, a lot of mistakes, you know? And I think those can be on someone's team, or you find a great group, like pipeline, that has those people there, right, that can, that can help with some of that, too. I'd say that's one thing, but then, like, another thing that I've seen, and, like, I'll talk to these people, and I'm just like, Man, how you moved quick on this. They just kind of shut out the noise, and they just really focus on the like, the things that matter and they don't. It's like, there's a lot of like in the startup world and whatever. There's a lot of stuff to get distracted by. You don't need to fly to every conference you know. You don't need to do, you know, everything at your disposal. You just focus on the product and try to do what you can and hack and harvest and glue things together, and it may not be the right material to start, right? Well, we're going to use, you know, we can't long term DoD printing. Doesn't matter. Do it for now, right? Oh, well, we really need, you know, this to be CNC machined. It's like, you know, do you really need that for right now, for this prototype stage? Right? So I think, like, the people that, like, have that kind of relentless focus, and also, like, you know, the ability to say no to a lot of stuff, and just like, focus on the stuff at hand, and have an action to bias, like, I've seen those people really move quickly in product development. And maybe one of the other things too, is when you've, you know, for every almost component of every product right, or sub assembly, or what have you. There's some like, design decisions you have to make. And if you have this thing of, like, well, we want to make it this way, and we need to make it this way, option one, right? Or, like, you just kind of having a closed minded approach about that. Like, I really think like, you need to get you know what's all right? What are all the ways that we could do this right? Well, we could have flanges here, or we could have a self locking thing here, or we could do right? Like, there's always a bunch of different ways to solve this problem. And, like, I think you need to get all of those out on the table and then document them, and then don't move, like, try to have a cadence where you know, you're seeing, you know, okay, here's the, you know, I've got three buckets of kind of components and things or different, you know, and then here's five options for this, and four options for this, and three options for this. And then you're kind of putting these things together and thinking, Okay, what, what? What works best for all these different things, and how do these things fit together? And is there, like, an optimal way to do this where it's, you know, different combinations of those different approaches. And I think if you do that, then you can have like, a little bit more of, like, a, you know, like a little bit more agile in like, Okay, we've done the work. It took a little bit of time to get these options on the table and really understand everything. But now that we do have it, we can see that, you know, this one, this one and this one are the best options based on all this criteria, and we had a really thoughtful dialog about it. Now we're moving forward. So I think that kind of, like, diversity of thought and diversity of and trying to have, you know, not just be so locked into someone's initial idea or initial concept or whatever. I think it's really good because, I mean, you tell me, Aaron, like, How many times have you been like, the one we went to market with was the was the first version of the first concept, right? It's always, it's always iterative. So if you just keep that in mind in the front it's like, one of these iterations is going to be it. But like, let's not make it to where it's like, we have to take one from start all the way to basically finish. Oh, now we need to iterate. And then you're back at square one. If you do it a little bit more along the way, you know, you keep yourself from doing a lot of, like, big revisions where you're going back to the starting blocks. I think that that's key, is when you can just avoid having to, like, scrap something and just start over. You know,
Aaron Moncur:there's a term that I use with my team, my team respectfully aggressive, and this is something I talk about in terms of moving fast, because. Yeah, especially if you're a startup, the faster you can move, the less money you're spending, and effectively, the longer your runway is. And it's it's taken me a while to understand that this is a skill that not everyone has. In fact, I'd say most people don't have it, like the ability to be aggressive in your environment and move quickly. Now, what do I mean by being aggressive in your environment? A practical example of this that seems to pop up all the time for us is we'll have an outside vendor that is providing something for us, a service, a part, whatever it is. And this vendor will come back and say, well, it's going to be four weeks until I can get you this, this widget, and I know that we need that widget in two weeks, or else we're going to blow our schedule. And I hope no one on my team listens to this and feels like they're being thrown under the bus. But I've just, I've seen more times than I care to count engineers, not just on my team, like engineers, generally speaking, maybe just people generally speaking. But I've seen internally anyway, the engineer who's communicating with the vendor just say, oh, shoot, that's too bad. Okay, thanks for letting me know, you know, and it shouldn't, and it doesn't have to end there, and you don't need to be a jerk about it. I mean, I'm not advocating that. That's why I say respectfully aggressive. Like, you should not respond to be like, Oh, that's unacceptable, and I want it in my office in two weeks, and no exceptions, right? Like, that's not a good idea. That's not going to work. But whenever I observe a situation like this, like I gently suggest to the engineer, hey, you know, I think we actually need that in two weeks. How do you feel about reaching out to this vendor and letting them know that, like to hold our deadlines, we really need to have this part in two weeks. And I know that's not giving you a lot of time, but are there any options that we can exercise to get this part faster? And it's so interesting, like, even though it's, it's a perfectly reasonable request, a lot of engineers feel like they're, they're being, I don't know, like, rude or disrespectful or something, just by asking if they can get something sooner. And that's not the case at all. Like, if, if it really is four weeks and the vendor will push back and say, Hi, I'm my hands are tied. There's nothing I can do. I'm sorry. It's four weeks. But so many times we have gone back and be like, hey, is there any way you can do it in two weeks? And they were like, Oh, you need it in two weeks. Well, I think we can move some things around. Yeah, yeah, we can do that. And it's just a simple question, a quick conversation, right? So being respectfully aggressive, I think accelerates the speed with which engineering can occur pretty dramatically.
Spencer Jones:I agree. And I think like being like, you said respectfully, but like direct and like clear and saying, like, Hey, we are open to, you know, we'd like to see some flexible options, if that's, you know, less than the order quantity up front, right, send, send some Right. Or, you know, an expedite fee. Or, you know, we'll, we'll pay for the whole thing up front, right? Like, and like, being clear, I think too, sometimes with like, you know, and this is sometimes with like, cdmos, and you know, you're working on a design and development project. And like, you know, hey, like, I would like us to meet that, you know, I would like to us to have an update regularly. I would like to, you know, anytime you order samples, can you please like, like, update this document for with, with what you know, what you're doing, or just, I think sometimes you just have to be, like, unmistakably clear about like expectations and what you want, like, what you expect of them, timelines, you know, user requirements, different things like that. Because I feel like it's just like, it's easy to just go through the motions sometimes. But like, like you said, if you want to be shaving, you know, months off a project, you have to be shaving, shaving days every week. So, like, that's the only way to get
Aaron Moncur:there. Yeah, yep, definitely. All right. Well, Spencer, this has been super fun. Thank you for sharing some of your precious time with all of us again. Go check out the the Exo med tech website. Spencer, where do they find I mean, you could probably just Google EXO medtech, but any other information you want to share about about that, or any of the other ventures that you're working on, how do people get in touch with you?
Spencer Jones:Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Spencer Jones, you should be able to find me. Actually, my LinkedIn URL. It's like LinkedIn slash, you know, it's like the basic user, basic like LinkedIn slash, you know, user in slash, and then I it's med tech innovation. So medtech dash innovation, which was cool. I couldn't believe it was, it was available. But Spencer Jones on LinkedIn, XO, medtech.com letter X, letter O, medtech.com We've got, we have, like, a free tier for EXO medtech. So if you just want to join and be able to chat with people, DM, people, etc, you can join that. It's kind of top right corner of the website. You'll see the button also, save for the engineers out there. We just relaunched medtech vendors.com so this. Is, you know, primarily a place to, if you have any type of project that's in the med tech arena, and you're looking for, you know, specific vendors with specific capabilities, right? We we basically attached, like a LLM chat agent that's been kind of trained and, et cetera, et cetera, to help not only just like, kind of find vendors, but refine projects, build out the project for you, make recommendations for certain things, and then match you with the right vendor for the project based on capabilities, fit, experience, expertise, etc. You can save vendors. You can, you know, save vendors to a project. You can kind of quickly hit a get in touch button and we'll, we'll do an email intro with you and somebody in sales and take the group, or you can directly request a quote, and then it same thing does an email intro, gets the ball rolling. So it's really, really cool. The chat agent feels like magic. The form creation is automated. So as you're just chatting, it's building out the project for you. I think you got to try it out, because once, once you, once you start working with it like it feels like, wow, this, this thing is cool, and it's free right now. Like, we're not charging users right now. I think we probably will in the not too distant future. So, but once you get in for free, you're in for free forever. So, or, you know, free for now, not forever, kind of deal. So, yeah, I would say, like, that would be my last thing. Just check out EXO med tech and, you know, check out medtech vendors.com we're, you know, we're adding features kind of constantly to try to create this, like med tech operating system for project management, engineers, founders and people building awesome stuff in
Aaron Moncur:medtech. Awesome. So cool. Well, thank you for the time today, and also everything that you're doing for the the community of of a medical device manufacturers and developers and entrepreneurs out there. Thanks again. Spencer, yeah,
Spencer Jones:much appreciated. Thank you for having me on, Aaron. This was awesome. We could literally talk for days and days and hours and hours about this stuff. So it was a blast to have you on, and thanks for everybody for
Aaron Moncur:listening. .comI'm Aaron monk, founder of pipeline design and engineering. If you liked what you heard today, please share the episode to learn how your team can leverage our team's expertise developing advanced manufacturing processes, automated machines and custom fixtures, complemented with product design and R D services. Visit us at Team pipeline.us. To join a vibrant community of engineers online visit the wave. Dot engineer, thank you for listening. You.
