Being an Engineer
Being an Engineer
S1E08 Getting laid off and starting an engineering company | Aaron Moncur
In 2009 Aaron was laid off from his job as a mechanical engineer designing medical devices. Instead of finding another job he started Pipeline Design & Engineering, figured out how to develop a team, and began supporting the medical device industry with custom equipment.
Pipeline Design & Engineering partners with medical device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, or automation equipment but don’t have the bandwidth or resources internally to develop that equipment. You can find us on the web at www.testfixturedesign.com and www.designtheproduct.com
About Being An Engineer
The Being An Engineer podcast is a repository for industry knowledge and a tool through which engineers learn about and connect with relevant companies, technologies, people resources, and opportunities. We feature successful mechanical engineers and interview engineers who are passionate about their work and who made a great impact on the engineering community.
The Being An Engineer podcast is brought to you by Pipeline Design & Engineering. Pipeline partners with medical & other device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, automation equipment, assembly jigs, inspection stations and more. You can find us on the web at www.teampipeline.us
Hello, everyone, this is rough out. It's Ty and I'll be hosting the being an engineer podcast. We've got a special guest today. He goes by the name of Aaron Moncure. And he's usually the host of this podcast. But I'll have the honor of interviewing him today and ask him some valuable questions. Aaron, how are you doing?
Aaron Moncur:Excellent. Thank you for hosting today. Raf. Looking forward to it.
Rafael Testai:Absolutely. So let's dive right in. You started the company pipeline design and engineering. And it doesn't have to do with pipelines. It has to do the name came from your from a beach in Hawaii named pipeline. Could you explain the name how it came about?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, thanks for asking that. I grew up in Hawaii, on the island of Oahu. And in high school, I got really into surfing bodyboarding. Actually, for those of you who know that is, and there's a beach up on the North Shore called Bondi pipeline, most of us just refer to it as pipeline. And it's one of the most famous surfing beaches on the world, incredible waves, lots of competition, just a plus surfers up there. And that's that's where the name came from. It's really just a throwback to my days surfing in Hawaii.
Rafael Testai:Exactly. So when you guys hear the name pipelines, you think about a beautiful beach in Hawaii and not an actual pipeline.
Aaron Moncur:That's right. We don't do anything with oil.
Rafael Testai:So how did you start pipeline,
Aaron Moncur:I started pipeline because I got laid off. And it was one of the best things that has ever happened to me. This was back in 2008, the recession, the company I was working for, at the time, great company, just really strong, solid, smart people that work there. But for whatever reason i i had become I had lost interest in the engineering work I was doing there, I became disengaged. And like I said, there were smart people working there. So I think it became pretty obvious to them that my head wasn't really in the game anymore. And 2008 came along the recession hit and they had to make some changes in the organization to, to stay in business. And, and so they let me go, I left the company one day as a W two employee, and I came back the next day as a 1099. contractor. And I did that for a little while. It was okay. But I realized after a month or two, that it was probably a much better deal for them than it was for me, I actually made less money. Because you know, I didn't have the benefits and things like that. So I started, I started looking for some of my own work just as a freelancer. And during this time, I was thinking to myself, you know, maybe I just don't like engineering anymore. I've been disengaged at work, I'm not really enjoying what I'm doing anymore. So started looking into all kinds of different things commercial real estate, web design, photography, I thought that I just didn't love engineering anymore. And I wanted to do something else about that time, my father in law, who's a seasoned businessman himself, we were talking one day, and he said, so what? Why are you looking at all these other things, you have so much experience already doing engineering. And he suggested that maybe it wasn't engineering that I didn't like any more, but it was just the way that I was doing engineering. And I thought, you know, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should give this another shot. And that's when I started looking for some work as a freelancer on my own. And I got a few small jobs in the beginning. And it was transformational for me because I realized that instead of being a cog in the machine, I could I could be the entire machine from start to finish I could I could run the projects the way I thought they should be run. And again, that was just transformational for me and I I regain the love of, of engineering and in the process discovered I yeah, I do like engineering, but I think what I like even more is being a business owner. And that's how that's how I got started.
Rafael Testai:Very interesting and as a single digit answer how many people on your team right now? Nine. Okay. What I found most interesting about this story is most people that have ventured out on their own and do work for hire work. They end up doing the work just themselves, they don't end up hiring a team and building a company. So what is it about you that is different from the individual that I described before? And how can one transition from being the individual that just does their work for hire to building a team?
Aaron Moncur:For me, it was really organic. In fact, in the beginning, I didn't want to work with anyone else, I am very much the typical engineering type, I like to work by myself, I'm very comfortable alone in a quiet room, versus with a big group of people in a more social setting. And at the beginning, I just wanted to do my own thing be a freelancer, just by myself. And I did for a few years, and things started growing slowly, organically, I began getting more jobs and bigger jobs. And after, after probably a year of working 60 to 70 hour weeks, I thought, you know, maybe I should bring some people on and not do this all myself, it was getting to be too much. And so I brought some contractors on and that helped greatly. And things, you know, kept, kept rolling, slowly, but surely growing. And after a while, I hired some of those people, and then I hired more people. So it was really kind of more organic growth, for me, and kind of a surprise, because like I said, In the beginning, I just wanted to do my own thing by myself. At this point, I'm very, very grateful for the team that I have, we have just some tremendous people that work at pipeline. And I cannot imagine going back to the scenario where it was, it was just me, that would not be fun for me anymore.
Rafael Testai:I see. So many things to ask you. Let's see. How did you this skill set of being an engineer versus hiring many people in the industry? If you listen to the podcast, they mentioned hiring as being one of the most important things about a company? How did you learn this skill set from hiring?
Aaron Moncur:I think I'm still learning that skill set. A lot of things that I have done have been trial and error, you know, I didn't really have any training. In a lot of these areas, I was figuring stuff out as I went along. In the beginning, the way I found people was I would I would go to this site, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head right now. But it's it's basically an online directory of design. Designers, not necessarily all engineers, but many of them were engineers. And so I go on there and kind of look through people's portfolios. And I'd find a portfolio that I liked, I'd see work in there that was very much in alignment with the kind of work that I knew we needed to do a pipeline. And then I just reach out cold to these people and say, Hey, are you interested in doing some contract work for me, that's how I found the first few contractors. And just working with them got to know them a little bit. And there were several people that I worked with, in the beginning and just you know, didn't really feel it. Didn't love their work, didn't love communicating with them. But by working with these people, on a contract basis, I was able to get a pretty good feeling for who's doing a good job, who do I like working with who's easy to communicate with and who's not, and kind of filter out the ones that just you know, weren't a good fit. Moving forward, I've used you know, Craigslist and tools like that. And most of the people I've hired, I'd say, half the people I've hired, I did not spend a lot of time venting, I just had a really good feeling about them, call it intuition, whatever it was, but I talked with them for you know, a couple of hours couple of different meetings and had a really good feel. But with them. Communication was good. I had seen their portfolios and some work that they had done. So I guess for me, it comes down to show me what you've actually done. I don't really care much about the piece of paper that says where you graduated from and GPA was like that just doesn't matter to me. But show me what you've done. Show me what you can actually do. And then communicate with me a little bit enough so that I know your called your kindergarten skills are good. You're You're a nice person you're you're easy to talk to. And that's those two things, I guess have been the big ones for me in terms of how to how to hire
Rafael Testai:the kindergarten skills. I like the way that sounds we should trademark that.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, well, I don't think we can do it. came from someone else. Yeah, there's a book called Joy Inc, written by the CEO of a software development company, Menlo innovations, really cool company really innovative approach to the development process. They do software, not hardware like we do, but a lot of really applicable ideas. And one of the things that this CEO writes is that when they hire someone, they're not even looking at technical skill at all. They're looking at kindergarten skills, how nice is the person to other people? And that's where that came from. I really liked it.
Rafael Testai:I see. Let's let's talk about you. Maybe this is something that a lot of managers listen to this podcast, that they may or may struggle with is one of the hardest things when you hire. In addition to the current guard skills, what do you look for in a portfolio, that's gonna let you know that this individual has the skillset to contribute in your company pipeline.
Aaron Moncur:I like people who can do not just functional work, but have an eye for making things look nice as well. I think that there's a correlation between that, that, that that skill for making something look nice and, and attention to detail, or just deep care and consideration in their work. So that's one thing I've looked for is not just, you know, pure mechanical aptitude, but do they have consideration for, for making things look nice as well. Another thing I've looked for is, you know, it's really easy to tell a student's portfolio from someone who's experienced their portfolio, that they're there are things that you can look for that, that let you know, this design might look nice, might look cool, but it really wasn't designed to be manufactured. In other words, you might, you might try to build this thing, and it's probably not going to work, versus someone who's really experienced. And they have thought through the details like tolerance, stack ups, and, and draft and other design for manufacturing considerations. And those are definitely things that I've also looked for, in portfolios. You can't always tell all those details, just buy a portfolio. So oftentimes, I'll have people design something, I'll give them a quick design challenge and say, you know, spend half a day and do this design challenge. And then I'll look through their work and try and glean some insights from, from what I see.
Rafael Testai:Very well. So for all the students listening out there, that's a golden tip right there for you. Tell us about your employee retention from my understanding has been pretty outstanding. How have you achieved that?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, we we have a good group of people together. One of we have three core values at pipeline. And number one is we treat our customers well, we treat our team members better. And the focus there is not so much on treating our customers well, which of course we do, and is very important, but it's on treating our team members really exceptionally well. And that's something that I've always followed. And I think it's been a big factor in retaining not just key talent, but but really just high quality good people. Well, you
Rafael Testai:mentioned the aesthetics being an important factor. And the engineers on the pipeline team have this capability because you hire them. And I looked on your website, and you do test fixture design for medical devices. So a lot of people when they think about that they may think of first I'll ask you to define it. And then if you could explain, if you apply aesthetics to that, and household.
Aaron Moncur:Sure, turnkey test fixtures and automated equipment, that's that's kind of our main focus. And a lot of medical device companies have to do extensive verification and validation testing of their devices to ensure that they function correctly. This is an FDA requirement for medical device manufacturers. So we build a lot of the equipment that allows these device companies to do their testing and prove to the FDA that yes, this device works as intended and it's safe to sell and to be used in the market. So that's what that's what it is. In terms of aesthetics for for fixtures. I will say that we don't spend a lot of dedicated time you know, like pulling in an industrial designer to making the fixtures and the equipment look beautiful. I would love to do that. But it gets I think the return on investment For the customer just isn't there. So we don't really spend a ton of time beautifying these things. But I will say that we have several customers who've done the test fixture design, the equipment design in house. And then they have, for one reason or another reached out to us and asked us to come help support those efforts. And when we look at the difference between what we put together and what they put together, there is a very visual difference. We like to black anodized, our parts, it makes it look a little bit more polished, and they hold up a lot better to wear and tear. Over the years, these things, these things are cycled through hundreds and 1000s of cycles. We we, what else am I trying to say here? The black anodised is one thing for sure just kind of looks nicer. And, you know, nothing else really comes to mind off the top of my head. But but it's it's hard to verbalize what what I see visually when we're looking at some of our work. Compared to maybe other people that don't focus on doing these test fixtures every day. It's just a cleaner aesthetic. And it's not just the aesthetic, it's it's, that's important because technicians using these things, whether they realize it or not, if they're using a fixture that's kind of cobbled together, it's really crude, it doesn't look nice. Even if it's perfectly functional, there's going to be this thing in the back of the technicians head that just doesn't feel right, because it's it's a chaotic system that they're working with versus using something that's really cleanly put together. It doesn't have stuff, you know, hardware geometry where it doesn't need it, it's kind of minimized to just the core essentials. Subconsciously, they're going to notice that they do notice that we've been told on numerous occasions by technicians that work with our equipment that it's just it's easier to work with. It's a cleaner feeling, and just a better user experience, which ultimately translates to better test results, faster test processes, things like that.
Rafael Testai:So let me ask you something. So for our listeners who want to get an idea, a visual of what some of our medical device test fixtures look like, what website should they go to
Aaron Moncur:test fixture design.com. And then I would head over to the case studies section of that webpage. And we have quite a few case studies with some nice pictures and videos of some of the equipment that we put together.
Rafael Testai:Alright, we'll make sure to include that link in the description of this podcast. So many of you driving, don't have to take out your phone and type in that website. I will carry on here. It's on like we talked before, and one of your main goals was to growing the company. What's one of the growing issues that come with with that?
Aaron Moncur:Oh, there's so many. For me, the biggest one is been learning how to do sales marketing. And I'd say that's been one of the biggest challenges of my career to date. I did not know how to do this, I still feel like I don't, I'm not very good at it. But I'm learning. So just figuring out how to how to get our messaging, right, how to be really clear to our customers about what it is we do and how we can help. And then defining a sales process that that works for us. That's been a huge challenge for me, and it's something that we're still working on.
Rafael Testai:Okay, so if any of our listeners have any tips on that, that they could give you, how should they contact you to give you those tips and to give you a hand.
Aaron Moncur:They can reach out to us on the website. There's a contact page there. All
Rafael Testai:right, perfect. So we're trying to build a community here on this podcast. So everyone, feel free to reach out to Aaron, if there's any way that you can help and give some advice, but also sounds like he's doing quite well. So 90 employees is not bad. All right. So let's see what is one of your unique abilities.
Aaron Moncur:I feel like I'm very good at putting systems together. I wrote an article that we published on LinkedIn recently called are your systems aligned with your goals. And the idea behind that is we all have goals that we're trying to accomplish. A lot of times we don't have a system behind how to accomplish those goals. We set them we say I want to accomplish XYZ but we don't really have a plan for how to do that. So something I've done recently is I have some business goals that you know key metrics that I need to be looking at on a regular basis that will help me set the trajectory for The company. And previously, I kind of did them whenever I had a chance, which realistically meant that I didn't do them on a regular basis, I just I wasn't seeing those reports and looking at the numbers like I should be. So I was thinking about, you know, do I have a system in place to help me accomplish these goals, and I really didn't. And so I put together a really basic, simple system where Monday mornings, I have calendar, recurring calendar events, and there are several of them, and a different event I have on on different Monday mornings, and each of these different events prompts me to look at one of these business reports, looking at different metrics. So that's an example of a real simple system that I put together, that's that's helped me a lot. But in general, I like systems, I like knowing how to do things, you know, let's figure out what the the best practices, document that and then have everyone use that system. Try to think of maybe some some other examples, we have quite a few. We call them standards, documents, that pipeline, their standard operating procedures, templates, the references, I think we have 80 or 100 of them now, I have put together, most of them, certainly some other team members who have contributed to that effort. But I feel like that's been one of the big contributions that I've been able to give is to put together all of these these standards, these systems, and it's something I enjoy. And I think I'm pretty good at it
Rafael Testai:really quickly which ones you're What software do you utilize to keep track of your Gantt charts and assign tasks? And why do you prefer that software?
Aaron Moncur:There are a few software tools that I use. One of them is called Reich, W ri K E. So project management software. It's it's very inclusive, they have lots of different tools, you can keep track of time, you can assign tasks, you can have tasks, specific messaging, going back and forth with Gantt charts for scheduling. I ended up using choosing to use Reich after evaluating a few of the different ones out there. And I just felt like this was the most comprehensive and unified, some of the other ones I looked at felt like they were kind of piecemeal together almost like a Gantt chart, you had to go to this different area to use then, you know, messages within project tasks. So it's just it's a really clean interface, which goes back to my my thing about aesthetics. Again, aesthetics are not just useful, because they look pretty. To me, aesthetics are important, because they convey to the user, the fact that the person behind this development is really considerate and caring deeply about what they're doing. And and that shows up in, you know, usability ways and things like that. So Rike is a big one, Dropbox is huge, we use Dropbox, to you know, sync all of our files between team members, I also use an application called Air table, which is is, has been great. I've been using that for a few years now. It's basically a list making application with with a lot of bells and whistles. So I use it to make all kinds of different lists, things that I keep track of my daily task list I use that for. So those are probably three the big ones, Reich, air table and Dropbox.
Rafael Testai:Wonderful. So let's talk about a lot of us listen to other podcasts and entrepreneurs and, and companies, when they outsource their engineer work. They're looking for a partner rather than someone that they can just go to a couple times. And then the the engagement is over. And to my understanding. There's a couple large companies that work with you. And they they've called you pipeline a partner. So how did you do to achieve this, this relationship with them any tips that you could give any other managers listening to this?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, I think it comes back to kind of the kindergarten skills, right? It's just trading people well, doing what you promised to do. Getting things done on time. I mean, it's it's, I want to say it's it's basic stuff, but in application, it can be really challenging to do what your say what you say you're going to do and get things done on time and within budget. And truthfully, we're not always on time and we're not always on budget, but we usually are and at the end of the day, I think The quality of our work has been a huge factor in developing some of these these partnerships we have. But also it's this level of trust our customers, they really trust us. In fact, a lot of our customers, they don't even go anywhere else to have projects quoted, they just they have us quoted, and we're the only ones that quote it and then they move forward because they trust that not only are we going to get the job done correctly, but but we're, we're going to charge a fair price for not, you know, not trying to gouge them or anything like that.
Rafael Testai:Absolutely. You talked about communication and the kindergarten skills. Nowadays, as we all know, most communication is done via email, is there one or two golden nuggets that you could provide to our listeners as to how to implement the kindergarten skills via email communication?
Aaron Moncur:Yeah, I can't remember what the percentages are right now. But a large majority percentage of communication is nonverbal. It is facial expressions, and you know, gestures, body body language. And in email, we lose that. So I think it's really important to be very, very careful in how you word, your email rethread, if there's any way that it could be misconstrued to be, you know, not respectful or not thoughtful of the the other person's situation, just being really careful in how you word, your email, so that it comes across as being very respectful. And also very clear and specific.
Rafael Testai:Is there any specific word or phrase that you'd like to sprinkle in to lighten the tone of emails?
Aaron Moncur:I love to start with Thank you. People need to know that they're appreciated, and, and recognized. So oftentimes, I'll start by just saying, you know, thank you for whatever it is that they're asking, or maybe something was just done. So thank you for whatever it's been. And then, you know, just using please, and let's see, is there anything else I can think of an email, nothing else is coming to mind right off the right off the bat. But maybe I'll come back to that if anything else comes to mind.
Rafael Testai:So you mentioned that earlier in your career, you like to work alone, and then you transition into who you are today. A lot of managers, a lot of actual engineers may feel the same way they like to work alone. So if you were to have multiple engineers that like to work alone in a team, but they need to collaborate on certain projects, what are some things that you could do as the manager to facilitate that communication between the engineers?
Aaron Moncur:I think it's important to understand how different people communicate, you know, some, some people might really enjoy a lot of social interaction, and other people, maybe not so much. So understanding how people communicate, and then try to tailor how you engineer these interactions to to leverage people's different communication skills.
Rafael Testai:Okay, I would like to go a layer deeper. So that sets the foundation for this question, because you gave perhaps an example of the different personality types, if you will, and how to tailor the management approach for each one. Hmm. It seems like this all comes very natural to you. And I just want to break it down for some of our listeners who may not be as good as you, and it may not be so natural at this.
Aaron Moncur:Yeah. Well, that's a good question. You know, I can't think of a specific example right now asked me the question once more, maybe a little jog something.
Rafael Testai:Okay. How about if you have an engineer that's extremely intelligent, but maybe he or she takes longer usually, or has a hard time with that lines? What are some things you could do to help this engineer keep the quality of work, but also meet the deadlines?
Aaron Moncur:Oh, this might not be a direct answer to what you're asking. But what I have learned is that people have different strengths. And it is nearly impossible to take a person with an ABC set of skills and have them do XYZ, effectively. I have fallen into this trap several times myself, where we'll have a team member that's that's really good at doing one thing, but maybe kind of struggles doing something else. And for whatever reason, we just, we need this engineer to do that something else. And so we assign a task to that engineer, and it almost never goes well. So I think it's really important that we understand what different people do well, and not try to force them to do something else.
Rafael Testai:How do you know when it's something that the engineer just flat out? It's not one of their strengths can do well, versus maybe they're just is their first time going at it? And maybe they can actually get better at it? How do you know which one they are?
Aaron Moncur:Well, part of it just comes from experience. If you work with someone long enough, you'll get an idea for where their strengths are and where their weaknesses are. There are, you know, these personality tests like strengths finders, one of them where a person can take the test. And that'll give you an idea for what they're really good at what they're maybe not so good at. So they're things like that, that you can do, to help get a rough idea for where people's strengths are. But I think at the end of the day, you just need to spend time working with them.
Rafael Testai:As an employer, do you find it more valuable to have an engineer on your team that's extremely good at a couple of things, versus an engineer that's more well rounded, but not as good in certain areas.
Aaron Moncur:We're a small company. And so it's really important for us to have people that are pretty good at a large number of things, as opposed to people who are really, really good at just one or two things. So I tend to look for the engineers that can wear several hats, you know, 80 90%?
Rafael Testai:Okay. What would you tell today, your younger self, when you started, if you were a brand new engineer, that you wish you would known back then. So any advice for you back then?
Aaron Moncur:For me, I think I would just say be open to change. You know, like I said, back, when I started, I just wanted to do my own thing, be a freelancer, not worry about employees. And that certainly changed. And then for a long time, I was really interested in being a project manager, that's where I wanted to focus all my time, I didn't, I didn't really want to do the engineering work, I wanted to be the engineering manager. And that was great also. And then it changed again, to where I didn't really want to be the one managing the project, I wanted to be the one building the business. And previously, those weren't, like big desires that I had. So over time, you know, your, your ambitions and your goals, they just change. And I think it's really important to be aware of the fact that you yourself are going to change over time.
Rafael Testai:What's one book that you will recommend to someone listening out there that, perhaps is doing freelance work themselves and wants to take that next step and to start building their company and hiring people? What's one book that could help them that comes to mind?
Aaron Moncur:Okay, this might not be the one that you're thinking about, or not that you're thinking of one in particular. But there's a book I read recently called Why We sleep. And it's been one of the most compelling books I've read. It talks about, it's kind of a trend, right? It's not a fad, but it's popular the past couple of years, people are talking about sleep and how important it is. And I've always appreciated that, you know, it's important to get good sleep, but reading this book, it is scary. Some of the things that science has proven in very controlled studies, how detrimental poor sleep can be to your overall not just your health, but your mental well being. So anyone who is trying to accomplish anything of significance. I think it's so important to to get really good sleep. And so yeah, if you're, you know, trying to start your own freelance thing, or whatever you're trying to do if you have some ambition and some goals, that is one place that I would start is getting really good quality sleep every night.
Rafael Testai:Alright, so with that being said, let's hope that this podcast they put you to sleep now, just again, I hope you all very much enjoy the podcast, we had Aaron moniker, the CEO and President of pipeline and this is rough out the spy interviewing him from now moving forward, it's going to be Aaron interviewing all the other guests in the show. Alright, so feel free to check out the notes in the comments below. And thank you so much, everyone. Please don't forget to rate us five stars in whatever platform you listen to the podcast really helps us.
Aaron Moncur:I'm Aaron Moncure, founder of pipeline design and engineering. If you liked what you heard today, please leave us a positive review. It really helps other people find the show. To learn how your engineering team can leverage our team's expertise in developing turnkey custom test fixtures, automated equipment and product design, visit us at test fixture design.com Thanks for listening
