Being an Engineer

Dr. Efrain Serrano | Cross Cultural Engineering Management, Recognition, & 1:1s

April 22, 2022 Dr. Efrain Serrano Season 3 Episode 16
Being an Engineer
Dr. Efrain Serrano | Cross Cultural Engineering Management, Recognition, & 1:1s
Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Efrain Serrano serves as the director of engineering at Edwards Lifesciences. Efrain has a broad background of experience and expertise in the DMAIC method, Medical Device development, Root Cause Analysis, and Continuous Improvement, and holds a PhD focused in Engineering Management from Walden University.

 
Efrain Serrano
Edwards Lifesciences
Aaron Moncur, host

 ABOUT BEING AN ENGINEER

The Being an Engineer podcast is a repository for industry knowledge and a tool through which engineers learn about and connect with relevant companies, technologies, people resources, and opportunities. We feature successful mechanical engineers and interview engineers who are passionate about their work and who made a great impact on the engineering community.

The Being An Engineer podcast is brought to you by Pipeline Design & Engineering. Pipeline partners with medical & other device engineering teams who need turnkey equipment such as cycle test machines, custom test fixtures, automation equipment, assembly jigs, inspection stations and more. You can find us on the web at www.teampipeline.us


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Presenter:

Hi everyone. We've set up this being an engineer podcast as an industry knowledge repository, if you will, we hope it'll be a tool where engineers can learn about and connect with other companies, technologies, people, resources and opportunities. So make some connections and enjoy the show.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

It's only saying hey, you did a great job. I liked that you did this. I liked that you perform it. This is verbally recognition, and they are going to be happy and they are going to work more and play pay more attention and dedication to the process.

Aaron Moncur:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The being an engineer podcast. Our guest today is Dr. Efrain Serrano, who currently serves as the director of engineering at Edwards Lifesciences. Efrain has a broad background of experience and expertise in the DMAIC method, medical device development, root cause analysis and continuous improvement and holds a PhD focused in Engineering Management from Walden University. Efrain, welcome to the show.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

Aaron Moncur:

Well, what made you decide to become an engineer?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Well, it's a long story, but I will tell you the short story, I'm at home, my hobby is aerospace in aerospace and airplanes. And when I was on high school, I want to pursue a degree related to aerospace or airplane. And searching and searching, I found this paper, the the information was about flying engineer, I was reading the paper. And one of the requirements to be flying engineer is to be an electrical engineer. And I say, I want to be an electrical engineer, because I want to follow. I want to be in the aerospace industry. And that's why I finish my career on electric electrical engineer.

Aaron Moncur:

Great. And then after you graduated, how, what was the, I guess the journey from from then until where you are now because you're you're in medical devices, right now? Did you stop in aerospace along the way? Or did you go right into medical devices?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

As a matter of fact, yes. To answer your question quickly, yes, I went directly to medical devices, medical devices, but this there is a story behind that. I was applying outside for aerospace engineer and nothing came. And then this company, Edward, like science called me. And I say, Okay, I will, I will try ailleurs medical devices, and they hire me. And as a matter of fact, I like it. And I like the medical device. I like saving life life. And I decided to stay however my sole follow my dreams. Oh, is that right? Yeah. My son follow my dream he he pursue a bachelor degree. I don't know if it's science. Right now. He's a pilot. He follow my dream.

Aaron Moncur:

Oh, very cool. So you get get to live vicariously through him. That's awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, in in 2015, you published your doctoral dissertation titled, efficient management of cross cultural manufacturing teams in the Dominican Republic. And even though the focus of your paper was was teams in the Dominican Republic, I'm guessing the principles that you discuss are relevant to cross cultural teams in other parts of the world, including companies here in the US is that fair to say?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Nice for Aaron is very for, even though I focus my, my dissertation on Dominica Republic, and we're going to talk about that is applied to any culture in us or outside the US or China, Mexico. During my dissertation. I was searching researching papers regarding China culture, Mexico culture, and I take some pieces from there and apply that to my dissertation.

Aaron Moncur:

Great, great. Now, how did you come up with this idea? What What was the motivation there? Where did the topic come from?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

A good question. Thanks to Edwards. Edwards, gave me provide me the opportunity. And they assigned me to Dominican Republic. assets to start up the plan in Dominica Republic saying you need manager. As a matter of fact, I was two years ago one year ago before I finished my master's degree are in Union marriage management. And that's why they gave me the opportunity either We're development and, and they assigned me as a manager in Dominican Republic. What happened there, even though we are, I grew up in Puerto Rico, and I was in Puerto Rico. But by that time, even though Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico are close, and we speak the same language, the culture is totally different. Mm hmm. And basically, for me was hard to understand the culture. And basically, I start learning from them. I start learning from them from their star, Mike, I can say curiosity, to start looking for different paper on the internet. expatriate people who have this spirit like me, and start reading and reading, I say, Oh, I like this. I like that, oh, I can try this. in Dominican Republic. And basically, from there, I say, Hey, I'm doing research. I always my goal was to be to pursue a doctoral degree. And from there, start the, the process from there start a process to pursue a doctorate degree. I started my research during college that allow me, because my busy time, allow me to share my time work time versus college. And I found these university and they gave me the opportunity. They interview me. And I pass the interview, and I start my PhD. Cool.

Aaron Moncur:

For that must have been an exciting time.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Moncur:

Well, one of the big points you make in your dissertation is that the success rate of expatriate managers is low end is a concern for top management in corporations. Can you talk a little bit about why you found that success rate to be so low?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yeah, that's, that's right. Well, let me clarify, the my dissertation was in 2015, when I was doing the research search was 2012. These processes all cross cultural thing was new word, it was new for corporate because they weren't in corporate on corporates, they were learning. And they were transferring operation to different area, China Mexico, and, and my research was based looking, looking different articles, or paper, I found that the reason for that low rate is because there are several reasons. One is training. Expected a manager from us who, who are transferred to another country, they don't receive the right training for their company. And the second big issue is family, the family dinner at that dinner that or doesn't adapt to, to, to the new culture. And that is a pressure for the manager, because they need to deal with the day to day of work, plus the pressure for the family that they don't like the country for some reason. Because they they they came for example, my case, I came from Puerto Rico, I moved to Dominican Republic, even as I told even though we are close, is different culture, different environment. And for me was easy because my children was were younger, but for a lot of people are are hard because you have adult children or teenagers that if you move it to a to another country, they will not that to that system. And that's why that was that's why delay the array was slow because Minaya set the challenge. They asked the time because they they like to tell the company like they'd like the challenge to be a new country. The family I said the challenge, but at the moment to be there and the new country is totally different. And they the impact is their thing. They they're trying to adapt to the country. And it's hard. And then at the end, families first and minor, you take the decision to say I quit, I need to go back to mainland us.

Aaron Moncur:

Interesting, which is totally understandable, right? If you're trying to do everything you can for your company, but at the end of the day, like you said, families first you got to take care of your family.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Aaron Moncur:

Can you This is all very fascinating to me it right. I had never really considered that dynamic before you and I met and started talking about your dissertation. Can you share a specific example of cultural disconnects? Between us managers and non US workers that that you have observed to make communication difficult.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Wow. Nice. It's a good question. Basically, that is connection, that connection is we as a as a US citizen and manager managing income and US company, we learn them manage management skill. We learn from the school or from a from another peers or manager or leader that you follow that there are good management manager. And we are trying to adapt that to a new country, and sometimes hard. Because, as I mentioned to you, when we were talking, you can now use the same tool that you are using us in other country like China, Mexico, Costa Rica, because that will not work. I know that we're going to talk about more later. But you need to start the first step is to start, if you move to another country, as an expatriate, you need to start the first step is to start learning your team and start talking with your team start. Understand, then the behaviors, what they like, what they taste like. And, and basically, to be successful, that is the first step. And try to connect that with that new people.

Aaron Moncur:

Okay, all right. So you're speaking specifically about expatriates, expats managers from the US that move to a different country, and then are working in this new country with the people who live there and their culture? What about for managers that are still here in the US working, but their labor force is largely made up of folks who weren't born in the US who moved here at some point? Are these tools and strategies that you discussed in your dissertation? Are they still applicable for that situation?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yes, the principles are the same. For me, let me give you an example. Right. In your van Draper, I have people from non US citizen people from Mexico. And the principles are saying you need you need to learn your your direct report, you need to learn the people that are working with you to understand basically, what they like what they, they, what motivate them to continue doing the right work. And that is the first step you need to learn you, the people around you. And as soon as you learn that, you are going to prepare this strategy of what you're going to do with your peer with your employee to be successful. The first step is learn. Learn the people around you.

Aaron Moncur:

How how would you suggest that managers go about doing that? Because we might not even know what we don't know, right? Working with a different culture and people who are used to their culture and we're used to our culture, what's what's a good place to start? Like what's what's a concrete actionable step that a manager could take to start learning about the the culture of the people with whom he or she is working?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

The first steps is listening. The second step is start setting up one to one meeting with that individual and start listening to them, of what they like, what they what they what these people, what kind of motivation that this person, but the first step is listening. Listening is the the main goal here, as soon as you listen. And as soon you understand what they like their motivation. As I told you, you can start preparing your strategy, how you're going to manage how you're going to lead your team, or this individual to be successful, and you'll be successful. Now. Let me give you an example. I moved to Draper Well, first I moved from Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, from Dominican Republic to Irvine, California. And now I'm here in Utah and and there are different management styles that I use over there. Well, how I adapt to that management style is having a one to one meeting with my my employee and understand why they like listen, what they like, what they what what are their motivation for From there, you can start your strategy, okay, I can use this person to help me on this because this person like to do paperwork, right in the system or computer or create application, I will use this person on these tasks because they like to do that. And it's just listening.

Aaron Moncur:

One, one of the findings from your research is that cross cultural training is really important for for expatriate managers and even managers here in the US that are working with labor forces that don't necessarily share the same same culture, can you share an example of the type of cross cultural training that you would suggest,

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

I will say language but will be hard. Basically, one, basically, the court, the corporation need to provide this kind of training, to the management, to understand culture, basically, is they need to, they need to understand how, how, for example, how Hispanics people like or dislike, how to manage. Because we are different, how to manage what they like, for example, and Dominican Republic, they like to be recognized for, for any great job that they do, they want, they like to be recognized. And if you don't recognize them, they're going to be sad, because they they feel that they did a great job. And nobody recognized that. And that is one of the points that I make on my dissertation. Perform cross career training, they need to recognize that kind of individual, because individual feel happy or employee feel happy. If you recognize that I don't need to be with money or give this only saying, Hey, you did a great job, I liked that you did this, I liked that you perform it, this is verbally recognition, and they are going to be happy, and they are going to work more for you for work more and play pay more attention and dedication to the process. That is one of the example that we need to add on cross cross cultural training for for management is to try to understand this employee, this individual what they like, as I mentioned, and if they like recognition, if they'd like to be recognized, less less, less, start doing the the language is important. Simple word simple. I have I have another person that hears speak English. And sometimes they they he for he How can say this? He tried to speak with me in Spanish. And I feel well, because he's, he seems right to speak in Spanish. And that is part of the recognition and the connection between me and him. And that that is part of this. We need to understand that that co worker, co worker and understand what we're going to do. And the next step.

Aaron Moncur:

Yeah, so maybe you don't speak the language perfectly. But the fact that you're attempting to do so is an indication to your team that hey, I care about you. I'm trying to connect with you. That right?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yes, correct. That's right.

Aaron Moncur:

Yeah. That's great. That's right, dandy, right insightful. Well, how have you implemented the findings of your doctoral research into your own management style?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

They today I implemented my why I put on my dissertation, part of my day, this dissertation, there is a there is a subject over there how to design effective team. And I use that a lot when when when I came here to Utah, that was part of my first task to create a new organization. And I was thinking and doing a strategy. How are we? How are we going to create an organization to be effective And the key for me to create an effective organization is it's not the knowledge from the individual is not is not the background, he haven't master a PhD, for me is the attitude. If you have a good attitude, you can work with that engineer, and the engineer will make you successful because the attitude, he's not as smart, but the AI tool will help you to move to the to the other goal not to achieve the goal. And I've been I have been applying that a lot every time they I interview for my organization. My focus more is on attitude. Yeah, I verify his degree, his experience, but more more in the attitude. And you can be a smart people. But if you your attitudes, not that good, then you will not be successful. My focus in hiring to standardize the key to design effective team and it's part of my dissertation is one of the chapter is how to design. Good, good organization. And one of the bullet point is that they are it.

Aaron Moncur:

That's a that's a big point, deep insight. If I were if I were a manager working at a company in which many of the workers didn't grow up in the US or were for whatever reason not familiar with with the cultural norms in the US, and I was tasked with developing a management strategy to most effectively lead these workers, what are what are a few actionable items that you'd recommend I consider implementing into my management style

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

communication listening and establish your plan and your plan and strategy to have a one to one meeting with that non non non from within employee. That is the three the three biggest step is establish a communication, start listening, and I want to have a meeting, that will be the the great point to for for any management success.

Aaron Moncur:

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, I'm going to take a very short break here and share with the listeners that Team pipeline.us is where you can learn more about how we help medical device and other product engineering or manufacturing teams develop turnkey equipment, custom fixtures and automated machines to characterize inspect, assemble, manufacture and perform verification testing on your devices. And we're speaking with Dr. Efrain Serrano, today, you have a dedication in your dissertation, which I thought was very cool. I admit I have not read a lot of dissertations today. But I wasn't expecting necessarily to see a dedication in one. And I thought it was really neat that you did this. And you mentioned part of the motivation for writing your your dissertation getting your PhD was to demonstrate to your children. And I'm quoting here, that nothing is impossible in this life if you're organized, persevering, and have goals. And I thought that was just such wonderful advice. And I can tell your kids are lucky to have such a wise father. It got me wondering how has been a father influenced the way that you manage your engineering teams?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

First, I mean, let me tell you, these are this phrase came from my mother. You're going to make me cry right now. My mother passed away. Two weeks ago. Sorry, when I was a teenager. Yeah, thank you. When my mother was a teenager, I was a teenager I'm sorry. And just a rookie or sophomore or freshman on on the university. I have been sometimes I've I came to my house frustrated because the class or or some issues that I have with my professor, and my mother told me that phrase that they take on me and basically I transferred that take data from a mother I transferred that to my son and daughter. But this is important. As a parent, as a father, we need to motivate our kids. It's that nothing is impossible, nothing is impossible. He you set up your goal, and you fight for that will take a two year or 10 years. But you need to be focused, and you need to be. And nobody can tell you, you cannot do it. If you are focused or organize and follow your dream, you're going to make that happen to me. I didn't believe though I, I finalized with the engineering degree. And because I persevere, my mother was there, and my father was there pushing me and I finished my degree. And I transferred this to my son and daughter. And I prefer not only this to my son and daughter, I transferred this to my employee, and two younger engineers, some teenagers that, hey, if you're organized, you do this organized, you establish the goal, or at least a goal three or five years, and you focus on your goal, you're going to make it don't frustrate, if you don't make it in one year or two year will take time. Someone can make it in one year, all or can make an in three year, but you can make it in five or 10 years. But if you focus, your persevere, you're going to reach and you go. And basically, I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. That basically, I that that was that was my message to my son and daughter. And, and always I was telling them there. And thank God that they they listened to me. And they're, they're pursuing their own goal right now.

Aaron Moncur:

That's amazing. Well, thank you for sharing such a personal side. That was really, really wonderful. It's interesting to think about how the dynamic between at least myself as a father, I think about this the dynamic between myself and my kids, and the dynamic between me and my team. And there's there's a lot of crossover there. You know, I feel like I'm able to teach my kids things. And the same way I'm able to teach my team things. And there's there's the, the opposite to that my team teaches me things and my kids is teach me things. And there's just a lot of crossover that I've seen, it's it's really pretty interesting. There was there was another point I wanted to make, oh, I remember what it was. There's a gentleman named Earl Nightingale. I think he's passed away now. But he was one of the one of the early personal development type gurus and he has this program called Lead the Field, and another one called The Strangest Secret. And in both of those, he talks about goals and reaching goals and this epiphany that he had when I think he was in his late 20s or early 30s, something like that. And it was this, we become what we think about. And as you were talking about achieving goals and focusing on them. That was the quote that came to mind, we become what we think about. It's It's fascinating how easy it is for us to get distracted from a goal. And the power that we can have in achieving our goals if we can simply find ways to continue placing our focus on that goal. And if we can do that, for a long enough time, it's almost like magic, the goal, it happens, we reach it.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yeah, Aaron, I think this is the word you need to believe in. You need to be leveled. And basically, you need to establish the goal, whatever the goal is, if you want to be a teacher, you want to be the pilot, you want to be an engineer, you need to establish that first goal and believe it and basically a start the brain is is the bigger things that we have right now. And if you continue saying I want to be an engineer, and you believe that and you, you start thinking about that, you're going to get it. Basically, you need to believe it and establish that goal. And again, you're going to get it you're going to get it because you need to repeat that every day. I want to how I will not say I want to be a millionaire because we're here but I want to be a pilot and I told that my son you want to be a pilot you need to believe it. I will help you but it's on you. Do you need to believe it? And thanks, God, he reached go who you should go. And for the people that is listening on this podcast, believe it, believe it and you go and everyday work on that goal step by step. and you're going to get it.

Aaron Moncur:

Yeah, they say, seeing is believing. But there's the corollary to that. Believing is seeing. And if you can believe something enough, then it will come to be. That brings to mind another Earl Nightingale quote, he says, what the mind can conceive of and believe it can achieve. And I've always really liked that once. Right? Okay, well, just a couple more questions here. And then and then we'll wrap things up. Let's see you, you earned your PhD will, while working as director of engineering at Edwards. And a director position is a very demanding one, how were you able to finish your PhD without letting any of your your director duties slip during the process?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Family support my wife and my kid, that was the first thing that you need to have your family support, and time management. Basically, as Sue mentioned, I was working as an engineer, I have it had projects to do, and goals to reach on my work. And in the same time, I have all the goals, personal goals to reach that was my PhD, and you, you need to have managed time management. And my time management was before before my family support was to sit down and create a plan how you're going to work with this and was hard. I was working in the morning. And during the afternoon until five o'clock, I was dedicating time to my family on the on the during the week. And then after 1011 o'clock that my son and daughter went to bed, I started reading, I start doing my homework for for the college on the weekends. The same I was I was dedicating time with my family in the morning until five or six o'clock after that, like, I went to my office, closed the office door and started reading and doing assignment and online teaching and learning I'm sorry, until one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning. Wow, as time management is time management. That's why is you need. You need to create a goal. And believe it and put your time management.

Aaron Moncur:

That's an impressive schedule. One that I think would be hard for a lot of people to keep, did you find that you needed to take time for yourself during that period where you know, you're focusing on your job and then on your family? And then on your dissertation? Did you? Did you intentionally take time out just for yourself to be by yourself or do something you wanted to do?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yeah, and you need to do that. Yeah. And thank you for that. That question. Yes, I forgot that you need to, you need to separate a time for yourself. And, and relax and reduce the stress of the day to day or war. And on home. I'm sorry, under school. Yes, it's important that on that time management, you separate time for yourself, not only for work not only for your family, just for yourself, because if you are over stress, then you're going to burn yourself out and burn burn your brain. And you cannot continue with you go it's important that you dedicate time for yourself. And you Bali will appreciate that. My time was spent time talking about my my wife or working out in a gym with my wife, that was my mind time for me and for my boyfriend, my wife is important to that.

Aaron Moncur:

Now that's great. My wife and I, we haven't done this for a while, but for maybe a year or so before COVID COVID is what really derailed this, and we haven't started it up since. But before cook for about a year, we would do what we called our free days. And once a month, either myself or my wife would get a Saturday to just go out and do whatever they wanted. And so maybe it was her her free day on one Saturday she'd go out and do whatever she wanted to do. I'd stay home with the kids. Watch the house, make sure that you know the family was good while while she was off doing her thing and then and then a different Saturday of the month it was my turn I'd go out and just kind of be by myself or maybe I'd meet up with a friend but it was it was a day for either one. One of us to just do whatever we wanted. And that was I thought really helpful for us.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

That is a great sample and is important for, for for you and your wife to have that free day is important. Yeah, that your body will appreciate that a lot. Yeah, I do brain will appreciate that a lot.

Aaron Moncur:

You for sure. Yeah.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yeah, you need to have a balance and how you're going to have the balance is have a time management and put some bullet point over there. Why do you want to do now later? And at the end? Guys? Those are the most important thing here.

Aaron Moncur:

Well, you've talked about time management a bit. Are there any particular strategies or time management skills that that you use on a day to day basis or that you've used in the past that you think otherwise? Others listening to this might benefit from hearing?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yes, basically, this is very interesting. And funny, I was I was reading or watching some TV, the owner of Maverick daluz. Mark who QM I think I was reading some paper for him. And basically, I found something there that made me staying and I said, this is true, you know, that Mark Cuban, they don't spend time on meetings and meetings, they want to do that face to face. And quickly. They hate the meetings, he hated the meetings, because he said that it is more efficient, efficient to have a lot of meetings in your Outlook calendar, or team calendar. And he preferred to have one to one meeting with the, with the person and legacy. And, and they seem interesting. And I and I tried to do that I hate to have a long meeting because some everyday that I sit on my on my office and I saw my calendar is like Christmas treat a lot of meaning. And one of the things to manage time management is decide, decide which team which meeting you're going to attend, you need to you need to have a decision. Okay, this meeting is important. Can I delegate this meeting? Or can I send a message to the person who is setting up the meeting? Hey, do you need minimum the meeting? They said that important topic that you need me I need to cover? And this is the person who organized the meeting, say no, I'll be very polite, I will say thank you, I will cancel your meeting because you don't need me on a meeting. Or, as I mentioned, delegate the meeting is there some meaning that you can delegate to to direct report that do it and attend to the important meeting that will affect your team, your strategy, your project? That is one. The second thing is every day, do a list of five things that you want to accomplish of the day. Find five things, five important things, put on your list and make it happen. And everyday do that and prepare that list for the next day, the day before. Because you you're going to remind that that is the least on the priority list that you need to do the next day. But only do five things you put you establish 10 or 12 things to do. I can guarantee you that on the resume, you're going to do five only five only. And focus on that that will be the goal and you're going to be you're going to feel happy that you reach the five goals on the day. But DICE DICE are how I manage my time I use time management is every day I put five things to do next day. Sometimes I put six because depending on the priority, and every time before I left, I leave my office, I go to my calendar, and I check how many meeting meetings I have on my calendar for the next day. And then I say okay, I can delegate this I can I don't need to attend this because this is is not an important information for me, or this one that I going to attend because will I impact my progress my strategy or my program? It's hard to do. But you need to balance you need to balance your time and you need to control your time because otherwise Otherwise you will not be effective.

Aaron Moncur:

I really liked the the tool that you mentioned about writing down the five things at the beginning of the day. or enter the previous day that you want to accomplish. I think that's such a powerful tool. And it takes five minutes, right to guesswork about what needs to get done and just write them down, maybe even prioritize them in order of importance, and then just knock those out one after the other. And maybe you don't get all of them completed in one day. But you know, what, if you didn't complete them all, in one day, using that strategy of having the written down, you definitely would not have completed them if you hadn't written them down. So it's a really great strategy, I use the same thing.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

That's right. And if you complete three, you're going to be you're going to be satisfied on that. Because from from five to three, that is a group progress that is super important. And again, you need to control your meetings, how many meetings you have per day, because if you have, as I mentioned, Christmas trees on your calendar, that will be hard for you to accomplish all the things that are important on your strategy on the project.

Aaron Moncur:

Yeah, that's right. Well, Efrain this, this has been really delightful. Thank you again for sharing some of your time with us. How can people get in touch with you?

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Yes, Aaron, thank you for having me. They can reach me through my LinkedIn LinkedIn account. I think it's Efrain Serrano at att net. There is the link to to the LinkedIn account or Efrain Serrano and they, they can search for me as Efrain Serrano. And you can follow me over there.

Aaron Moncur:

Perfect. All right. Well, Efrain. Thank you again, so much. This has been a treat and a delight, and I really appreciate your time.

Dr. Efrain Serrano:

Thank you all for having me here.

Aaron Moncur:

I'm Erin Moncur, founder of pipeline design and engineering. If you liked what you heard today, please share the episode. To learn how your team can leverage our team's expertise developing turnkey equipment, custom fixtures and automated machines and with product design, visit us at Team pipeline.us. Thanks for listening